Converting a Fuzz into Distortion ...

[DavenPaget]

I never really quite knew the differences between them two ...
I heard it's a difference in a cap somewhere but who knows ? I won't ever know until someone clarifies 

[Mark Hammer]

There will never be a definitive answer to that request, but I will attempt one.

Guitars use plucked strings.  Are you surprised yet?  Because they use plucked strings, they produce a signal which contains a lot of harmonic content initially, but which quickly dies out after a couple hundred milliseconds or so.  That same signal also has a peak amplitude for a short period and very quickly drops to a relatively stable, but much lower, level, before finally fading out.

Those properties tend to mean that if the signal is hurled at a circuit that clips, the clipping and resulting harmonic content will be maximum during the initial pick attack, and be rather sporadic after that, unless the clipping threshold is low or the signal has a LOT of gain applied to it.

For whatever reasons, circuits we collectively refer to as "fuzz" tend to have clipping over a much greater portion of the signal post-pick.  I'll distinguish the tone produced from the proportion of the signal that comes out clipped.  Indeed, there are many classic "fuzzes", that get thought of as such, which have a mellower tone (or can be made to have one) than some things we think of as "distortion".  The same waveform may very well be produced by a distortion as by a fuzz, but for the distortion it changes very quickly after the pick attack, where the fuzz will produce that waveform over a much longer period.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Quackzed]

fuzzes start to sound more like 'distortion' when you cut bass going into the circuit. in my experience. so changing the input cap to say a .01 will cut alot of the fuzziness overload sound and be closer to a 'distortion' type tone... changing the output cap to smaller will probably do a similar thing to the sound, seems that much of the 'fuzz' character is in the low end, when you cut the lows out you lose alot of the 'fuzzy' character and end up with more of a normal distortion tone...

[DavenPaget]

@Mark.H
Plucked strings ? I'm not surprised , of course .


@Quackzed
So that's how it is 

[petemoore]

  Er something like Fuzz is Fizzy [treblier] than Distortion which is 'thicker'.
   Thats all basic garbage nomenclature when interpreted or an interpretation is being analyzed, names and beliefs about this are only rarely inline with each other, and interact on other equipement/settings and constantly change anyway.
  Adding to what Mark wrote, boost your distorter so it stays in hardclip mode for more of the note-play-time, loosen up the HF's and maybe cut some LF's...call it FUZZ ! .

[WGTP]

Good points.  At least with the Fuzz Face and it's variants, there is a lot of asymmetrical distortion producing lots of even and odd order harmonics.  Distortion circuits seem to produce more odd ones and and less even, in comparison.  Another point, I don't care for fuzz that much but love a good distortion. 

[CynicalMan]

Distortions and Overdrives often have high pass filtering before the clipping and low pass filtering after. Fuzzes usually have much less filtering, and even sometimes have low pass filtering before the clipping. Fuzzes tend to be more compressed, leading to the distortion on the decay that Mark was talking about.

I'm currently analyzing the Fuzz Face for an emulation project, and it's way harder to understand than your normal TS or D+. To give an example, the bias on the input varies with the signal level. Weird stuff.

[joelindsey]

Fuzz - Wild. Hair. Noise. Buzz. Treble. Bass. 60's. 70's. Righteous. Psychedelic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzouRrr4Vlw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdTQx_1QDG8&feature=relmfu


Distortion - Smooth. Focused. Tight. Sounds like a cranked amp. Overdrive.

Fuzz is a kind of distortion. Distortion isn't always fuzz. Some pedals can do both. I think the Big Muff can be either depending on how you use it.

[DavenPaget]

Distortions and Overdrives often have high pass filtering before the clipping and low pass filtering after. Fuzzes usually have much less filtering, and even sometimes have low pass filtering before the clipping. Fuzzes tend to be more compressed, leading to the distortion on the decay that Mark was talking about.

I'm currently analyzing the Fuzz Face for an emulation project, and it's way harder to understand than your normal TS or D+. To give an example, the bias on the input varies with the signal level. Weird stuff.

Hey cynical , tell me more about HPF .
( and a schematic of it )
I ain't got no clue on HPF  
Thanks , cynical

[DavenPaget]

Fuzz - Wild. Hair. Noise. Buzz. Treble. Bass. 60's. 70's. Righteous. Psychedelic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzouRrr4Vlw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdTQx_1QDG8&feature=relmfu


Distortion - Smooth. Focused. Tight. Sounds like a cranked amp. Overdrive.

Fuzz is a kind of distortion. Distortion isn't always fuzz. Some pedals can do both. I think the Big Muff can be either depending on how you use it.

You were right about that , Fuzz is simply speaking , 70's hair . Messy , wild , violent .
Distortion , cleaned up , tight , in order .
It's like Fuzzes are out-of-order distortion and Distortion boxes , in-order distortion .

[sault]

Some of it is in the ears of the beholder, but in general I think it has less to do with harmonics and more to do with the degree of saturation/clipping and filtering.

maybe an audio comparison is best....

Clip of three different fuzzes (appropriately named "Two Muffs and a Swollen Pickle")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHWfStMYKdw&feature=related

Clip of "Metal Distortion Pedals"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3900Exbb4P0&feature=related
(a quick recap about 6 and a half minutes in)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3900Exbb4P0#t=395s


Distortion pedals, especially the "metal" pedals, tend to be more "crisp", "clean", with more "attack" and "clarity".
Fuzzes, as you hear in the clips above, tend to be buzzier. (running out of adjectives) Maybe "warmer".

I'll try comparing two different pedals and see if I can draw some very general conclusions.

http://gaussmarkov.net/layouts/drboo/drboo-schem.png  Dr Boogey
http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/schematics/bigmuffpischem.gif  Big Muff

The Big Muff clips high frequencies pretty heavily as the voltage rises (the diodes in the feedback loop form a voltage-dependent low-pass around 2 khz), so that would help explain why the Big Muff seems a little duller than the Boogey. The Boogie definitely allows more high frequencies, although it does cut them pretty heavily between gain stages (as is expected for Jfets when they're driven hard). There's a low-cut around 1.5khz after that first stage, for instance.

The Big Muff seems to let more bass through (that opening high-pass is at 40hz), while the Boogey seems to pass less (I'm seeing at least one high-pass at 80 hz). Less bass=more headroom and clarity, so that makes sense.

The tone stacks are different, and they definitely contribute a lot to that overall sound. The Boogey has a Marshall-style tone stack (aka FMV tone stack), while the Big Muff has its characteristic "notch-in-the-middle". In other words, with controls at 50%, the Big Muff has a huge cut (-15db or so) around 1khz while the Dr Boogey has a -10db cut around 500 hz.

So - in a very general sense, fuzzes could be said to cut less bass, cut more high frequencies, and cut more frequencies in the higher mids than metal distortion pedals.

Conversion would then become a matter of tinkering with the EQ and tone stack... tightening up the bass throughout the fuzz, changing how the higher frequencies are clipped, and especially paying attention to how the tone stack alters the overall tone.

In the end, it does depend on the circuit. You would take a different approach with a Fuzz Face than you would with a Big Muff, for instance, simply because of how the circuits are laid out.

[R.G.]

The reason this is foggy is that there is no precise definition of either one, at least in the pedal world.

This question comes up with each new batch of eager new learners. It's in the archives many times.

[CynicalMan]

Hey cynical , tell me more about HPF .
( and a schematic of it )
I ain't got no clue on HPF  
Thanks , cynical

High pass filtering means that signals below a certain frequency are filtered out. If the cutoff occurs well within the audible range, it sounds like a bass cut. This is a simple RC HPF:


The frequency response looks like this:

Where

High pass filtering is often used with distortion to reduce bass before clipping. This makes a "tighter" sound. Fuzzes often don't have as much filtering before clipping, and so they have more bass, but a "loose" or "messy" sound in the midrange.

Edit: Sorry about the equation image. I use HTTPS Everywhere, so I am used to taking out the "s", I just missed that one.

[PRR]

> Where

We don't see this image.

Take the "s" out of "https" in your image URL.



The world is only half-ready for https links posted in public; as it happens, Google often supports the same file in either http or https protocol.

(And it looked good to you because you already had the image in cache.)

[LucifersTrip]

The reason this is foggy is that there is no precise definition of either one, at least in the pedal world.

This question comes up with each new batch of eager new learners. It's in the archives many times.

A big reason for the fogginess is that the definition of fuzz has changed over the decades.

As a 60's garage collector, when I think of fuzz, I think:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGnOpM3wOtk

And even though Jimi Hendrix made the FUZZ Face popular, I hear no fuzz in his usage, unless you go back to the pre-Experience days:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_0HDhxQgn8

...and one of the largest groups of musicians that use fuzz today are stoner bands, but again, they rarely get a 60's garage, buzzy fuzz sound. They use it for fat, thick riffs...

It's all about the history.

[deadastronaut]

And even though Jimi Hendrix made the FUZZ Face popular, I hear no fuzz in his usage,

yeah iv'e  never bought into that myth/legend,...doesn't sound like fuzz at all on 'most' hendrix stuff!......a strange association!...

[WGTP]

To me, "Foxy Lady" and "Fire" are both pretty fuzzy.  Since they were hits, lots of people have heard them.  Also, his association with Roger Meyer probably helps. 

[mac]

IMHO if the stompbox or preamp makes a combo amp walk along the room like an unbalanced wash machine then it is a fuzz! 

I cloned the Valve Jr preamp using fets running at 36V. By changing the source caps from 100uf to 0.68uf I get fuzz to distortion to overdrive tones.

mac

[WGTP]

Too Funny.