Ludwig Phase II Clone Debugging and Miscellany

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Did you also use shorting jacks for the Lo Z/Hi Z inputs so that the unused input would be shunted to Ground?

Uh yeah, I forgot to mention that one too, but it's pretty clear in the build doc. Check the wiring section, page 7.

To quote Yogi Berra:

"Its like Deja Vu'... all over again!" 

[Vince_b]

Yo Vinny, just out of curiousity, what transistors did you use for QF 1 - 4? (I believe you meant QF, and not Q for the transistors you measured?)

Nope, that was the measurements for Q1-4. I looked at the "Inputs, mixer, and buffers" page of the build document and it looks like  there is no suffix in this partial schematic to distinguish between the transistors from the filter board and main board. By looking at the full schematic it's clear that I should have measured QF1-4 instead. I used 2N5551 as recommended.

QF1
E: 0 v
B: 0.65 v
C: 3.13 v

QF2
E: 3.53 v
B: 4.09 V
C: 11.28 V

QF3
E: 0 V
B: 0.63 V
C: 7.43 V

QF4
E: 2.63 V
B: 3.14 V
C: 11.3 V

One simple thing you could do to adapt the Ludwig to your guitars and playing style is to put a signal divider in front of the input just to lower the signal level of your guitar down til it quits overloading the first stage(s).

Right now it's not really an issue because the Ludwig works well with my main guitar in the Hi Z, but I will keep that in mind.
But I'm still curious if it's peculiar to my build or if all Ludwig have saturation issues in the Lo Z input.

Did you also use shorting jacks for the Lo Z/Hi Z inputs so that the unused input would be shunted to Ground?

Yes, I used shorting jacks.

[digi2t]

Right now it's not really an issue because the Ludwig works well with my main guitar in the Hi Z, but I will keep that in mind.
But I'm still curious if it's peculiar to my build or if all Ludwig have saturation issues in the Lo Z input.

I guess G_L will be able to tell us that... eventually. His build-joy just got sabotaged by an LED. 

Sorry brother, couldn't resist.

If you feel like trying it, try the 2N5088's in QF1 to QF4. I think you might be pleasantly surprised by the difference. Q1 to Q4 is part of the Animation section, and shouldn't impact on the sound of the unit.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

His build-joy just got sabotaged by an LED. 

Not sabotaged Don Dino..... It has merely DELAYED the inevitable! 

That eventually, I will be posting on this thread and looking for debug help! 

[Keppy]

One simple thing you could do to adapt the Ludwig to your guitars and playing style is to put a signal divider in front of the input just to lower the signal level of your guitar down til it quits overloading the first stage(s).

The Low Z input already has this. The Low Z Balance pot makes a resistor divider with RF1 & RF76. If my synth player ever gets back to me about building him one, I'm going to increase the value of that pot for greater range. It wouldn't help passive pickups because of the treble loss caused by the low impedance, but I wanted to bring this up in case it helps anyone else. The advantages of doing this are that it's adjustable, uses controls already on the layout, and requires no build modification, just a substitute value. The disadvantage is the aforementioned treble loss with most guitars, plus it seems a bit kludgy to divide the signal just to re-amplify it.

[R.G.]

... it seems a bit kludgy to divide the signal just to re-amplify it.

Yep.

There are several things I'd change if I were re-engineering this. I suspect from all the little oddities we've seen that it was hurriedly designed by not-the-people-who-sold-it and that they did not have the advantage of looking at electronics from this side of nearly half a century later.

I messed with a re-engineering of the intent if not the actual style of this mess into a single foot-controlled pedal. It's rough, but demonstrates the possibilities. Right now it's resting in the bin with the rest of "Kool! We gotta sell those when we get the chance!" 

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Well... it appears that my SWEET Ludwig build will be on hold for a little while longer 

After some careful planning, I guess I will need to make adjustments and order a few parts.

- Gotta get some tip-shunt enclosed jacks for the Inputs (ANY RECOMENDATIONS ON THIS WOULD BE APPRECIATED. CHEAP AND FAST IS PREFERRED)
- Gotta get some shorter PCB stand-offs. The pieces I have are just too high and I need a bit more space.
- Gotta do some metal work in order to fit the DC jack. 
- Gotta get a comon cathode LED (already on its way)

Cant do any wiring until I get the jacks and the stand-offs as I cant get accurate measurements without them 

More to come soon-ish 

[digi2t]

- Gotta get some tip-shunt enclosed jacks for the Inputs (ANY RECOMENDATIONS ON THIS WOULD BE APPRECIATED. CHEAP AND FAST IS PREFERRED)

Effects Connection. I use the open Neutrik jacks though. I find that I can turn them, and get them to fit into much tighter spots than the enclosed Switchcraft ones.
http://www.effectsconnection.com/oscommerce/product_info.php?cPath=2_63&products_id=606

- Gotta get some shorter PCB stand-offs. The pieces I have are just too high and I need a bit more space.

Dremel with a cut-off disc?

- Gotta do some metal work in order to fit the DC jack.

Sorry. Can`t help ya there. Just make sure to pay up your dues to your local tin bashers union before performing any work.

- Gotta get a comon cathode LED (already on its way)

Wasn`t that the snowball that triggered this whole avalanche?

[Govmnt_Lacky]

^^^^^^

I saw the ones at Effects Connection. They are about the best pricing I can find with shipping however, still about $7-8 for 2 jacks with shipping 

As for the standoffs... I am planning on using the plastic ones with adhesive backs as per the build doc. The ones I have are 9.5mm and 12.7mm high. These are too high. I need the ones that are 5mm high. So, the dremel idea wont work here.

I DO have some Bi-Color LEDs on the way though 

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Has anyone been able to figure out how to filter out the ticking that increases with the Intensity pot. I am told it is inherent in the originals as well.

Just wondering if anyone has figured out how to get rid of it 

Other than the annoying ticking, I got this bad boy tuned in and running smooth 

[digi2t]

Sorry bro, I never had time to look into that. Had to pack everything. It's in a box somewhere now, as is my whole shop! 


I HATE MOVING...VING...VING...VING!!!!!!

I was thinking that a cap somewhere in the Percussion Repeat area might be able to take the remaining edge off of it, without critically affecting the performance, but I just didn't have time to play with the idea.

[pinkjimiphoton]

well, it's not really TICKING... it's a repeat percussion effect, it's kinda supposed to be "ticky" not tremolo-y.

it's actually kinda cool, as each click is like a fresh attack, sorta. it gives the repeat percussion thing some bite.

[Vince_b]

well, it's not really TICKING... it's a repeat percussion effect, it's kinda supposed to be "ticky" not tremolo-y.

it's actually kinda cool, as each click is like a fresh attack, sorta. it gives the repeat percussion thing some bite.

This is what I've always been thinking. To me it's a "feature" of the Ludwig.

[pinkjimiphoton]

exactly vince. some people LIKE that kinda sound (like me).... it's a repeat percussion, not all that different from say, a kay tremolo kinda soiund.

i think it's pretty cool and useful, but... thinking about it... i bet adding a switch to go and double the rate would be cool as hell, get some mosquito-y ring mod-y kinda noises maybe.

[Govmnt_Lacky]

i bet adding a switch to go and double the rate would be cool as hell, get some mosquito-y ring mod-y kinda noises maybe.

OR... possibly a switch to add/remove it 

[pinkjimiphoton]

to remove it, all ya gotta do is turn down the knob tho.

rather "have" it then "lose" it, to me, it's a feature...it sounds a lot cooler than i think peeps realize until they hear it.

[wavley]

exactly vince. some people LIKE that kinda sound (like me).... it's a repeat percussion, not all that different from say, a kay tremolo kinda soiund.

i think it's pretty cool and useful, but... thinking about it... i bet adding a switch to go and double the rate would be cool as hell, get some mosquito-y ring mod-y kinda noises maybe.

Well, I like the the repeat percussion sound too, it's like an old Spacemen 3 record, it's not at all like the kick drum sounding LFO thump that I get from my Wiggler if the intensity knob gets above 10 or 11 o'clock.  I would like it to shut the heck up when the unit is in bypass though.

I'm hoping to get in there this week and work on it a bit, like using the extra poles on my bypass switch to kill the LFO and bringing down the effected volume to close to the same as the bypassed.  This thing is an acquired taste of an effect as it is.  I don't really need it to melt the audience's faces off when I turn it on too.  Just melting their ears and brains will due for me thank you.

A double rate switch would be pretty awesome, I have mine set a a real compromise right now.

Of course, I have to fix Ned's brownie Vibrolux this week and have it done by the time he comes back through town, so we'll see what I actually get to.

[R.G.]

One of these days I'll get time to look at improving the design some.

I'm still kind of amazed that the factory schemos worked as shown.... 

[pinkjimiphoton]

i remember when trying to debug mine, there was a 500r trimmer on the fall board that had failed, BUT it made the repeat percussion part actually work right. as soon as i replaced it, it got funky again.

it's amazing this thing EVER worked. how cool is that? 

[Govmnt_Lacky]

Every time I turn up the Intensity pot.... it reminds me of the motion sensor gadget from Aliens  

I am trying to find a pic of the original ad that explains what each control is responsible for. Is this all that the Intensity pot controls?