Will anyone ever reveal the true circuit Hendrix used in his FuzzFace?

[skumberg]

I guess if somebody could get one of Hendrix tour techs Dave Weyer on the phone maybe he'd be interested in telling us more than he says in this article.

http://i94bar.com/ints/weyer.html

Which is an interesting read anyways, mentioning both the wah wah and fuzz face and the fact that he did modifications on them.

[pinkjimiphoton]

hendrix era marshalls had EL34 tubes not 6550's... that alone is a big difference..find a 1967 plexi/Lay down mains with the filter caps inside the chassis  and you will get close to hendrix and EVH except for the picking hand/thumb..etc

right about the marshalls. however, hendrix reportedly preferred the 6550's in his, biased rather cold in search of more volume. it was his preference to the stock el34's.

of note however also, that 6550's were in the export marshalls to america, el34's were the british equivalent. not even close to the same tube or sound, tho with a quick bias change you could use either.

[DougH]

Corgi toys absolutely rocked, and were the preferred small metal car among my crowd.  They often had working hoods, trunks, and doors....though Hot Wheels had some bitchin' paint.

That's because the Corgi's were a UK product, and built to last, whereas the Hot Wheels (US) were made to flash. I had both growing up, and the Corgi's always seemed to endure the abuse, while the Hot Wheels would always end up... well, not so Hot. But, I digress...

It's in the fingers. Most definately in the fingers. What were we talking about again? 

I've still got all my Hot Wheels too. I think they lasted just as long. Huskies and Matchbox had nice details but really sucked on a Hot Wheels track. The Hot Wheels blew them away every time.

[zombiwoof]

hendrix era marshalls had EL34 tubes not 6550's... that alone is a big difference..find a 1967 plexi/Lay down mains with the filter caps inside the chassis  and you will get close to hendrix and EVH except for the picking hand/thumb..etc

right about the marshalls. however, hendrix reportedly preferred the 6550's in his, biased rather cold in search of more volume. it was his preference to the stock el34's.

of note however also, that 6550's were in the export marshalls to america, el34's were the british equivalent. not even close to the same tube or sound, tho with a quick bias change you could use either.

This is what I also read, there is one of his stacks from his American tours (he would have some Marshalls stashed in storage across America, so they could be grabbed for shows in different areas without trucking them all over the states) that is on display somewhere, it is reportedly in the same condition as when he used it.  People were surprised to find that they indeed had 6550's in them.  Marshalls always had EL34's in them in Europe, but the American distributor at the time started replacing them with the more sturdy 6550's because they were getting too many warranty claims for bad power tubes after the amps were shipped here.  They eventually had Marshall put the 6550's in the amps that were shipped to the U.S.  Jim Marshall didn't like this, he thought that the EL34's were the best sounding tubes for his amps, but he complied for the export amps until the distributor for the U.S. changed, he then changed back to the EL34's.  There was a short period after that when they had to put Sovtek 5881's in them, when the last manufacturer of EL34 tubes closed down (Tesla).  As soon as EL34's were available again (Sovtek EL34's), they immediately switched back to the EL34's, and have used them since then.  There was a time, for a year or so, when NO EL34's were being made at all, many people forget that because they didn't live throught those times. 

Another note about Jimi's Marshalls, he later started using the bass-cone 30-watt Celestions in his cabs, because he was blowing up the original 25 watt greenbacks too often.

As for the Fuzz Faces, he did at first use stock units, and indeed did go through batches of them to find ones that sounded good, because they varied so much in sound (not much attention to biasing the transistors in the original units).  However, later on Roger Mayer did start doing some mods to all of Jimi's pedals, including his FF's, but he is mum about exactly what was done to them.  It was a constantly evolving series of mods to get what Jimi wanted to hear.  So Mayer would be the only one to know what was done to the later Fuzz Faces, I don't even know if he made notes on the changes or remembers after all these years, so good luck with that one!.

Also remember that Jimi dimed his Marshalls, and controlled the volume from his guitar.  It was reported that when someone else tried to play through his setup, they would get uncontrollable feedback when they turned up the guitar.   He had learned how to control the sound by where he stood on stage, and continually rolling the volume back and forth and switching pickups on his Strats.  Add to the equation the long curly cords, which cut highs (and lows to an extent), and the other pedals in his chain and their placement, and his own fingers, and there is where you get totality of his sound.  I saw him at the Forum in L.A., and I can say that it certainly was a loud and forceful sound.  I will remember that concert for the rest of my life.  I also saw him at a festival in '69 in the valley, another memorable event in my youth.

Sorry for ranting on here!.

Al

[joegagan]

i normally don't care about this sort of historic minutiae, but it was widely reported back in the day that hendrix had his marshalls modded for 6L6s.

[joegagan]

he liked the low end response of showmans.

[fpaul]

Ah great!  I thought I was done with pedals for a while, but now I have to find some high gain low noise fairchild transistors with a blue or green dot to put in my wah!

On a more serious note, I would be more interested to know how he got some of his clean tones than the fuzzy ones.  Never heard anything like them before or since.   

[seedlings]

On a more serious note, I would be more interested to know how he got some of his clean tones than the fuzzy ones.  Never heard anything like them before or since.   

I read somewhere recently that he left all his secret circuits engaged and used his guitar volume knob to get clean tones.

CHAD

[pinkjimiphoton]

his clean tones were often the neck and middle pickups of his strat, thru a fuzzface, with the guitar turned way down. seriously.

you can get a better clean tone that way than a guitar straight into the amp. if the fuzzface doesn't clean up when way down, (silicon ones aren't really fuzzfaces, and don't act like ge) you have the bias wrong. a well-set up fuzzface with ge transistors will go from total fuzzy filth to a crystal clarity that needs to be...ummm...experienced....to appreciate.

that said...

@joe gagan, joe, that's THIS jimi, not THAT Jimi!!

lol!!

seriously...i thought i was the only guy that used 6l6's in his marshalls (and even 6v6's...but that's another story)

to my ear, the rca blackplate 6l6gc is the most musical tube ever produced...creamy and warm with a nice bottom.

el34's to me are too middy, and 6550's too cold...

i liked 7027's too, and 7591's...

but i converted just about every amp i ever played thru in the last 15 years or so to 6l6's.

[zombiwoof]

he liked the low end response of showmans.

When I saw the Experience in the Forum in '69, he had two Marshall stacks, but also two Dual Showman heads, which were sitting on the drum riser on his side.  They were presumably going through two Sunn cabs that were next to his Marshalls, and he was mixing the Marshalls and Fenders together.  I know he was using the Fenders because once in a while he would go over to the heads and adjust the controls.  He and Noel had been given Sunn amps by the company, Jimi didn't like them because they didn't break up enough for him, but Noel continued to use the Sunn amps and cabs.  Jimi did find a use for the Sunn cabs, though, by using them with his Showman heads.  You can see those heads sitting on the drum riser in some pics from the period.

I've never heard of Jimi using 6L6's in his Marshalls, but he would have in the Showman heads.  Because he turned everything on the Marshalls up to 10, he discovered that the 6550's wouldn't distort as much as the EL34's at that level, and at some point had his amps converted to use them.  In the early days the Marshalls would have had the EL34's, or even KT66's in the earliest ones.  I think the main idea is that he was continuously experimenting with different tubes, speakers, and amp mixes over the years, but the Marshalls were the one constant in the equation.

Al

[DougH]

to my ear, the rca blackplate 6l6gc is the most musical tube ever produced...creamy and warm with a nice bottom.

I use one of those in a little 10W single ended amp I have. Actually mine is re-labeled Bogen but made by RCA. It is indeed a nice sounding tube.

Re. the 6550s: IIRC that whole thing could have been avoided if they had used bigger screen resistors (or used them at all), like they do now for EL34 and other true pentode tubes. With beam tubes like 6550s, 6L6s etc the screens don't need as much pampering. There was a lot of misinformation over the years about bad output xformers, bad tubes, etc in Marshalls that turned out to be about a set of four 25 cent power resistors. Who'd a thunk it...

[Paul Marossy]

imho, the simplest answer is the tone was in jimi, not his effects.

Same goes for most guitarists AFAIAC. I don't care to get into an argument about it, but tone is mostly in the fingers of the guitarist. You can replicate someone's equipment exactly, but you can't replicate them as a musician - how their head and heart translates into the music they make and how they do it - it's more than simply just their technique. That's always the missing element whenever I hear someone saying that they've been trying to get so and so's tone for years but can't quite get it. It's because you ain't them!

OK, so I'm getting out of here before the stones start flying my way. 

[fpaul]

but tone is mostly in the fingers of the guitarist

So you're saying instead of building the 50+ pedals listed on your site, you could have just practiced more?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[PRR]

the true circuit Hendrix used --


http://xkcd.com/730/

[pinkjimiphoton]

[Jaicen_solo]

I don't really have much to add to this thread, other than to mention the 5881's shipping in Marshalls might have had something to do with a certain EVH.

Also, a lot of those great tones you hear on record are actually just stock Fender or whatever amps.

Jimi used Marshalls up full for his live concerts, but he used whatever he could get his hands on in the studio.
Tracks like RedHouse were cut on Fender Deluxes, if I recall correctly.

[ubersam]

Jimi told me over lunch that the OP might just be trying to stir up some hype for an upcoming YAFF booteek pedal...

[amptramp]

Jimi told me over lunch that the OP might just be trying to stir up some hype for an upcoming YAFF booteek pedal...

Were you having lunch in heaven or hell?

[seedlings]

Of course! An arduiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnoooooooo!

CHAD

[brett]

Hi
I heard that when Tesla stopped catching electric eels, Sovtek caught them, but they were too fat in the middle 
(Thanks PRR. Love that diagram)
6L6 to EL34 reversion in my JTM60 didn't stop me sounding like Hendrix   
Bias makes a big difference - I run my EL34s at 32-34 mA (hot!). They die young, but sound great. At 25mA they sound dead. Sound-wise, cold biasing ruins any tube.
cheers