Orange Squeezer... 10uF's instead of 4.7uF's? Got 'em laying around

[gregwbush]

Hello all,

I've just done a perf board layout for the GGG OSQ orange squeezer compressor replica: http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/projects/16-compression/208-orange-squeezer




Just one question, can i use 10uF's instead of the 4.7uF's???

Actually, more than one question... how about 2.2Meg instead of 1.5Meg for R1 and also 2k2 instead of 2k4 for R5?

The reason i ask is coz i've got 'em laying around

Cheers,
gregwbush

[LucifersTrip]

Just one question, can i use 10uF's instead of the 4.7uF's???

yeah, two 10uf in series = 5uf

[gregwbush]

ahh... thanks LucifersTrip... appreciate your input. I better rephrase my question though!

Can i substitute 10uF cap's where 4.7uF cap's are called for in this circuit?

[deadastronaut]

nevermind, wrong post.

[gregwbush]

nevermind, wrong post.

Thanks mate!


Anyway, i built the thing
all 4.7uF caps have been replaced with 10uF
1.5Meg resistor is 2.2Meg
all 470k resistors are 510k
the 390k resistor is 300k in series with 100k (=400k)
10k trimmer is 50k
germanium diode is totally unknown (from a bag of random components)




... and; it works
definitaley compressing the signal, and wow, those 2n5457's really add a nice sparkle

[deadastronaut]

cool, you got it going!...nice one.   

[gregwbush]

Yep!

why wait for components! just wing it!

forgot to say
the 2k4 resistor is 2k2
and the op amp is a tl072 rather than the specified 4558

(and the reason the board is an odd shape is so it fits around the footswitch!)

[deadastronaut]

i did wonder about the shape...

the general rule is 10% tolerance either way iirc , values wise..

[gregwbush]

i did wonder about the shape...

the general rule is 10% tolerance either way iirc , values wise..

lol how about +/- 103% tolerance for the capacitors

[DavenPaget]

i did wonder about the shape...

the general rule is 10% tolerance either way iirc , values wise..

lol how about +/- 103% tolerance for the capacitors

Those are the worst monolithic ceramic caps .

[gregwbush]

No monolithic ceramic caps here!

Hmmm, i'm thinking maybe the cap in series (Edit: PARALLEL) with the trimmer to ground may be adding distortion prematurely as i turn up the trimmer, being 10uF instead of 4.7uF. Since i never built a stock one i don't know tho!

I'll get some 4.7's today and see what happens. May be able to get more compression before clipping

[gregwbush]

I came across this thread about the Orange Squeezer and the selection of the germanium diode

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=76019.0

and without changing any capacitors, i've gotten more compression out of it

BUT i've found a problem (using incorrect values)

After not playing for a while (no signal), it takes a good 20 seconds or so to slowly rise up in output level. I recorded a little and to begin with the average level was about -15dB to -12dB, as it "warms up" it slowly increases over a period of about 20 seconds (like a fade in) until the average level reaches about -6dB to -3dB. From there, unless i stop playing for a while, it remains the same, working nicely.

This'll be (i guess) because i'm using the wrong capacitor values and they're taking time to charge (or something). If i were more patient, i'd wait til i have the correct parts before i start building!

[deadastronaut]

hmmm....yeah values are there for a reason i guess..

so 2.2uf's should be quicker then according to that eh!...

[gregwbush]

hmmm....yeah values are there for a reason i guess..

so 2.2uf's should be quicker then according to that eh!...

Values are there for a reason yes, and my patience is lacking for no apparent reason. Add values and my impatience together and you get a brilliant layout (modesty) and a dysfunctional circuit!

Here is R.G's awesome explanation of how the Orange Squeezer works (ggg version, the one i'm using)
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=54308.msg414842#msg414842

Schematic


I still aint been to the electronics store to get parts but i did find one 4.7uF cap and after reading the above post i decided (guessed) that if there was one cap worth changing it'd be C7. I did that and it seems to "warm up" quicker. This might just be in my head though.

The topic of this thread is: Orange Squeezer... 10uF's instead of 4.7uF's? Got 'em laying around
My question has been answered! No

That by no means is the end of the thread. Any thoughts at all are welcome. And i'll be back with updates eventually

[PRR]

> After not playing for a while (no signal), it takes a good 20 seconds or so to slowly rise up in output level. I recorded a little and to begin with the average level was about -15dB to -12dB, as it "warms up" it slowly increases over a period of about 20 seconds (like a fade in) until the average level reaches about -6dB to -3dB. From there, unless i stop playing for a while, it remains the same, working nicely.

That's not the 10u/5u change.

Gain at no-signal should be maximum. Gain should not increase with signal; rather decrease.

Check FET types. Re-diddle bias. Put a voltmeter on C7 and see where it sits no-signal and medium signal.

[gregwbush]

I tried a few different fet's and diddled the trimmer and it still did the same thing... worked like a compressor but took a while to "warm up" for lack of a better term, after periods of not playing.

I then went on to change all the 10uF caps to the specified 4.7uF, same result

It wasn't until i changed the values of R4 and R5 (divider) from 400/510 to the specified 390/470

That got it working properly

[PRR]

> from 400/510 to the specified 390/470

That does not explain it.

Maybe the 510K was 51K? That would lo-gain until signal brought the opamp off the floor.

[gregwbush]

Hmm, 510k was indeed 510k

Maybe i did something else. I changed out a few things including the trimmer, from 50k to the specified 10k. Maybe it's coz i'm able to more precisely dial that in?

Anyway the layout works

Appreciate everyone's comments and advice!
cheers,
gregwbush

[gregwbush]

Hmmm,

it IS still doing the fade in thing. I thought it was working but it's not

It still takes a few seconds, maybe 5 seconds, to reach max output. Once it's there, it sounds great, very compressed, not much variation in output level at all. Very musical and has a nice feel... but if i stop playing, and listen closely to the noise... i would expect that noise to swell up quite quickly and then stay constant. Instead, it swells up and then after a few seconds, it fades out. Not to nothing, maybe like 12dB less. That's where it stays until i play again. The output is low and i have to let it warm up for like 5 seconds again. Repeat repeat repeat.

It's weird

Another weird thing is the volume pot... at full CCW it's silent (as expected) and gets louder as i turn it up (as expected), but when i reach about half way (on a linear scale), above that it actually becomes quieter. Full CW is silent! That isn't right!

I had better seriously check my wiring and continue reading articles/threads on the circuit coz this is weirding me out


Everything is now stock except TL072 IC and unknown Ge diode (with 259mV measured forward voltage)

What oh what could it be

[PRR]

Put voltmeter at various points. Find the points that vary with gain.