Your vote for best PCB software?

[guitarrob]

Hey, it has been awhile since I used any design software for Schematics capture->PCB layout editors.
I was wondering what people are using around here for their PCB runs?
I am looking for something that takes the schematic and does the PCB layout automatically based on
various parameters entered.

I am researching at the same time but feel free to offer opinions and/or suggestions.
I have heard of the common apps like Eagle, Diptrace, Express PCB, FreePCB, Proteus..etc.

What app are you using for PCB's and why do you like it?

[R.G.]

I am looking for something that takes the schematic and does the PCB layout automatically based on
various parameters entered.

Yep. Me too. Been looking for that for some years now. 

[guitarrob]

I am looking for something that takes the schematic and does the PCB layout automatically based on
various parameters entered.

Yep. Me too. Been looking for that for some years now.  

Some apps do PCB layouts from schematic capture with autorouters..etc. I just meant it was a required feature.

Based on your post, what are these apps missing for you in this area?

[Pablo1234]

I use eagle for mixed signal stuff and Design Spark for everything else. Eagle dose copper pours best and Design spark has no limitations. I never use auto Routing though, I can do better then any free Layout app.

[Gurner]

I think diptrace is a good new kid on the block - I really like the overall vibe and intuitiveness of the program  but for me the lack of user programs (plugins if you like) was a dealbreaker - without such user written programs, you are therefore constrained to the functionality the main program gives ......fine if it has all the features you need but I do some fairly advanced stuff involving CNC milling PCBs, solder dispensing (need pad centre coords out of the program etc) that it just wasn't viable - I use Eagle, there's a wealth of supporting stuff out there. Eagle still often infuriates me (for example to import a DXF file into the layout requires third party utliities....in my opinion it such basic feature should be integrated into main program body - eg with Diptrace it is) but for bang per buck ....IMHO Eagle is still the best that's out there.

[guitarrob]

I think I am going to do some work with Diptrace and Eagle to start out.
I will find out soon enough if the app has what I need.

[igor12]

I have been using ORCAD PCB editor for about 3 years now because I was forced to learn it at work.  Large learning curve- I did attend company funded training and also have official support, which I need to use often.  I still do not like it but it is probably good to have on your resume. One thing though, I have never made an artwork mistake using PCB editor. Either I am getting better or the DRC are better.

Here are some of the ones I used:
1. Power PCB (It's been a while but I remember this one being very intuitive to use and good).
2. ORCAD layout- pretty good once you get used to using spread sheets.
3. MULTISIM/ULTIROUTE- Tried it a bit- seemed ok good until I tried moving VIAs and weird things happened- PASS.  I do love using MULTISIM for quick simulations though.
4. EZ PC- Seems very good, intuitive and cheap.  Creating footprints and symbols seemed a bit weird. I built a basic board within an hour.  You really have to use their schematic capture tool though cause it doesn't like to import netlist from other packages.

[tca]

I'm using pcb geda under Debian GNU/Linux It is free-software.

http://pcb.geda-project.org/

[R.G.]

Once again, "best" is highly subjective.  "Best PCB software" usually means "the one you already know how to use". Changing software suites, whether for PCBs or word processors, is usually as difficult as getting a divorces, and takes about as long.

[armdnrdy]

When I was looking for a schematic/PCB program, I tried the half a dozen or so freeware programs that were available to see which one was written in a user friendly "language" to where I could start drawing a schematic without taking a night school tutorial class.

Some of the programs failed miserably in that department! I couldn't even place a symbol on a board without reading a tutorial!

I ended up going with Eagle. I found it to be the most user friendly out the gate. Eagle is very versatile, has a ton of online tutorials, a plethora of component libraries available, and the ability to send the files to a board house.

As far as auto routing goes......I tried the auto router on my first build. (MXR Flanger) In the end I routed it manually.
I never used that function again!!

I actually like routing boards! It's like playing chess. You move components around to get from point A to point B with an ultimate goal in mind.

[pickdropper]

I use Eagle for pedalboard layouts because it is free and there are a ton of existing libraries.

For non-pedal type stuff (ie: work) I've been using Altium, which is far better, IMHO but it has so many options that it takes a while to learn it all (which I haven't yet).  It doesn't directly import Eagle libraries which is unfortunate as recreating everything would be time consuming.  There are workarounds, but I haven't gotten around to trying them yet.

[cloudscapes]

I like Diptrace quite a lot.

I would not reccomend auto routing at all. Learnign to route manually does have a learning curve, but a worthwhile one. Auto routing is pretty dumb, routing power traces under sensitive components, audio traces under clock generators or other noisy things. It's useful in the digital realm when routing parallel ram or something with al ot of pins, but in the audio world, a mixed signal board, it's an extremely bad idea IMO.

[aballen]

I'm a fan of eagle, its free for non profit work, and board under 100x100mm which is great for pedals.

sparkfun has a lot of great tutorials on eagle as well.  Learning to place everything can be a bit of an art, but with practice it gets pretty easy.  Getting it all single sided makes it more challenging.

I typically do my own routing.  Though if you are not concerned about making the smallest board possible, then the autorouter works fine.

[pickdropper]

I like Diptrace quite a lot.

I would not reccomend auto routing at all. Learnign to route manually does have a learning curve, but a worthwhile one. Auto routing is pretty dumb, routing power traces under sensitive components, audio traces under clock generators or other noisy things. It's useful in the digital realm when routing parallel ram or something with al ot of pins, but in the audio world, a mixed signal board, it's an extremely bad idea IMO.

So much this.  I've never had an autorouter do it in a way that worked at all.  I know some folks have successfully done it, but I've never been able to.

And even routing parallel tracks, it often does things goofy, ugly, or both.

It obviously helps if you place the components in the correct place.  The helps give the autorouter a good starting point.  But I often (but not always) refine the parts placement as I am routing.

[kodiakklub]

eagle eagle eagle. and i dont use autotrace. tried it once. its more of a hassle. i and i like to play jigsaw puzzle with the parts and copper routes. its actually very easy to use. incredibly easy to use, once you get it set up. i have a great design rules file and parts library if anyone wants....

[Gurner]

Another vote for eagle.

'best' for me, means the software can do whatever I need it to do without me hitting a wall, then having to move over & learn a new app.

Eagle has been around so long now & has so many user plugins ...it's all been done before (pick 'n place, solder dispensing, CNC activity etc etc)

[Ronan]

Changing software suites, whether for PCBs or word processors, is usually as difficult as getting a divorces, and takes about as long.

For simple circuits, there is an exception, Sprint Layout, it is easy to switch to. There is no schematic capture, but if I could get a girl into bed as fast as I can do a layout with this software...

Don't need to set it up, don't need plugins. Good for pedals, but not commercial stuff. Absolutely painless software. Painless drawing, painless gerbers, painless reliability

But, each to their own...

[R O Tiree]

For my money (ie, free) it's ExpressSCH/ExpressPCB. Simple, intuitive, fast.  Then again, I actually enjoy the whole PCB fabrication process, especially as I now have the means to do home-brew solder-masks, which makes for a very professional-looking product.  As long as you copy the schem into ExpressSCH correctly, it is almost impossible to screw up the layout.  On the other hand, if I had my own CNC machine, or wanted to send files to a fab house, for example, then I'd have to graduate to something a little more grown-up, perhaps, that could export the industry-standard files needed - ExpressPCB exports an encrypted version of these files that would be useless to any other fab house.

Certainly for people just starting out with their own PCB layouts, I'd go for the simplicity and ease of use of the Express package.  Going straight to something like Eagle, which has a very steep learning curve, is very daunting.  Like anything else that one has to learn, start with something easy and then ramp up the complexity as you get better at it.  RG's point above about "the one you already know how to use" is absolutely spot-on, though - it takes a lot of investment of time (and probably money) to move across to another package.

[Gurner]

Certainly for people just starting out with their own PCB layouts, I'd go for the simplicity and ease of use of the Express package.  Going straight to something like Eagle, which has a very steep learning curve, is very daunting.  Like anything else that one has to learn, start with something easy and then ramp up the complexity as you get better at it.  RG's point above about "the one you already know how to use" is absolutely spot-on, though - it takes a lot of investment of time (and probably money) to move across to another package.

Hmm - you're saying if you're starting out, to use something simple, but then warn that  " it takes a lot of investment of time (and probably money) to move across to another package"     ...so why not just take the extra few nights to get to grips with a package you won't outgrow?

[R.G.]

Hmm - you're saying if you're starting out, to use something simple, but then warn that  " it takes a lot of investment of time (and probably money) to move across to another package"     ...so why not just take the extra few nights to get to grips with a package you won't outgrow?

That would make sense if you already know you're going to do a lot of it. If you don't already know that, the steep learning curve to get used to a really good, capable package will make most beginners lose interest before they achieve something useful.

The other issue is that the good software is, by and large, not free. I personally think that the difference between a beginner package and a useful one (!) is that the useful ones have good checking against the schematic for connection errors.  Express PCB claims to do this, and does it in a clumsy, almost useless way. The fancier packages do a good job of saying "Hey, your traces are shorted here, and too close to each other here, and these connections are not made at all, according to the schematic."

That all by itself makes for a much easier time of getting first pass results. If the schematic is correct, then you know the connections are correct on the PCB by the time you make the program stop nagging you about missed and wrong connections. But it means you absolutely have to put in the schematic correctly first, and that about doubles the time you spend. Beginners by and large can't sit still for that.

I do all my day-job stuff in a professional package that goes for about $2k per "seat". The connection checking is really good. What that means is that, like painting, about 60-80% of the work happens before you ever start laying down the colors. In fact, if you do a good prep job, the actual routing is almost an afterthough to the schemo, footprints, and placement.

I haven't looked at the free packages for quite some time now. Maybe some of them have better interactions with schematics than they used to. I still use Express PCB sometimes when I need less than three boards of less than 3.5x2.8" in a hurry. But I do it behind closed doors and wash my hands afterwards.