Graphic Muff?

GreenCustom24 · March 23, 2012, 05:01:28 PM

Hey guys. Brand new here. I've got a question about an idea I've been kicking around my head for a while. I've asked a few others and they've basically told me it would be close to impossible... but from some of the custom jobs I've seen I can honestly conclude that they're full of crap. haha Perhaps you guys could be more help?

The subject says it all. I'm basically wondering how much of a pain in the ass it would be to meld a Graphic EQ with a Big Muff? Possibly utilizing the Creamy Dreamer mod as well? I'd like to replace the tone knob on the Muff with say... the guts from a Dano Fish n' Chips (just to keep it cheap and simple). The housing would obviously have to be custom. I think it'd be a great idea and it's something I would definitely use regularly. Maybe call it the Creamy Fish Muff. ha

Any thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks!

nocentelli · March 23, 2012, 05:08:33 PM

Perfectly possible, I find the big muff is greatly improved by a more effective tonestack than the simple LP/HP tone control on a standard muff. That said, splicing in part of a existing pedal to another pedal isn't likely to be a simple job. I suspect you'd be better just bypass the muff tonestack and stick the graphic after the muff.

Mark Hammer · March 23, 2012, 05:11:37 PM

How much control do you need to have, and do you want it feeding the clipping stages, shaping the already clipped signal, or both?

GreenCustom24 · March 23, 2012, 05:18:54 PM

That's sort of what I was thinking if I really couldn't splice the two pedals. Just get a Radial effects loop pedal (or something similar) and have one line running to the Muff with the EQ after it. Just keep them constantly switched on and use the Radial switch as the master on/off. Probably end up costing about the same as the mods, anyway.

Quote from: Mark Hammer on March 23, 2012, 05:11:37 PM
How much control do you need to have, and do you want it feeding the clipping stages, shaping the already clipped signal, or both?

I just figured I could make the tone control way more versatile and be able to do much more with it. I'm not really a fan of the single knob. I guess I'd want it to do both.

nobodysweasel · March 23, 2012, 07:18:34 PM

I'm pretty new to this, but it seems like something you could do with a little work. There's program called Duncan's Tonestack Calculator that shows several different possible tonestacks, let's you alter component values, and displays the results. You could mess with that to tweak the values in the Big Muff tonestack to something more suitable to your taste. Alternately, you could build a Big Muff clone and replace the tonestack with, say, the tonestack from a Fender amp, or something along those lines. Then you'd end up with something that gives you a lot more control.

nordine · March 23, 2012, 07:48:52 PM

Quote from: nobodysweasel on March 23, 2012, 07:18:34 PM
I'm pretty new to this, but it seems like something you could do with a little work. There's program called Duncan's Tonestack Calculator that shows several different possible tonestacks, let's you alter component values, and displays the results. You could mess with that to tweak the values in the Big Muff tonestack to something more suitable to your taste. Alternately, you could build a Big Muff clone and replace the tonestack with, say, the tonestack from a Fender amp, or something along those lines. Then you'd end up with something that gives you a lot more control.

maybe a Baxandall with a switch for mid bump

GreenCustom24 · March 24, 2012, 08:24:44 AM

Thanks guys. I'll do some digging and see what I come up with. I hate admitting it, but I have NO clue what I'm staring at when I look at wiring diagrams and such. Just confuses the hell out of me. If I ever have any custom work done I'll probably just have to get someone else to do it all for me. The most complex wiring job I've ever done is wiring a new humbucker into a guitar. ha

Mike Burgundy · March 24, 2012, 08:55:35 AM

Well, welcome to a possible new addiction then ;P
You might want to start off with a simpler project and build up from there - trust me, you'll like it. Even simple little circuits are very rewarding, you'll learn a LOT, on construction, how circuits work, how to debug, and how to alter the electronics to make it do what you want, and have a better success rate. If you tackle what looks like the "holy grail" pedal at once, you're likely to run into trouble that's hard to fix at a certain level of experience, make mistakes you don't have to, and with that run a very real risk of putting yourself off DIY. You also might find that said pedal isn't as holy a grail as you thought, and might not know how to tweak it so it's better.
A Big Muff by itself would be an intermediate project, a graphic EQ is definitely complex.
Try a booster (beginner project, minibooster, LPB1, etc), a two-transitor fuzz (fuzzface etc) and an IC overdrive (RAT, tubescreamer, etc) first for example, there's litterally *loads* of stuff over here, runoffgroove, general guitar gadgets, etc. Read everything you can on GEOfex.com (technology of...series!) and muzique.com and everything you can find, and happy soldering!

tiges_ tendres · March 25, 2012, 02:57:57 AM

Don't electro Harmonix already make a Graphic Fuzz pedal?

nocentelli · March 25, 2012, 05:04:25 AM

+1 for starting with a simpler project first. If you have no clue about wiring diagrams+schematics, building a single transistor circuit is definitely the best place to start, but a booster (LPB-1 etc) is a bit of a, dare I say it, dull first circuit. I'd recommend trying the Bazz Fuss (instant Muff-like filth with a single transistor): There's a great super-novice oriented walkthrough here - http://www.seymourduncan.com/tonefiend/diy/simple-but-deadly-fuzztonefiend-diy-club-project-2/ and once you've got it working, you could try tacking some different tonestacks on the end of it. If you're not really interested/have no time for a new hobby/addiction and want to get it custom-built, I'd have to warn you that I suspect the cost of splicing and re-housing a BMP+Dano graphic pedal will almost certainly cost more than the price of those pedals put together: There's likely to be a huge amount of work involved in routing slits for the graphic sliders.

Ben N · March 25, 2012, 05:48:44 AM

It's a cool idea. I'd be concerned about overdriving the eq, however, which is why some of the alternative passive tone control configurations may be attractive. Also, simpler than a graft and less cumbersome than an extra loop switch box would be putting an fx loop in the Muff, like the original Marshall Guvnor. You would need room for either a pair of jacks (send and return) or a single stereo jack, which you would use with a dedicated stereo Y-cable. In a big, old fashioned Muff, there's plenty of room for this. With a switching jack, you might even be able to bypass the built-in tone control by plugging into the fx loop jack(s), and substitute a resistor to ground to pad the signal down going onto the eq. The Fish'n'Chips is perfect for this, since you don't have to use its footswitch.

BTW, pairing a distortion with a graphic eq has plenty of precedent. See Exhibit A, one Gilmour, David. Although I believe he did/does this with other distortions, e.g. a Rat. I don't know whether he puts the eq before or after the Rat. Post-Muff he is known to have used a Coloursound Overdriver or other overdrives.

GreenCustom24 · March 25, 2012, 08:02:27 AM

Quote from: tiges_ tendres on March 25, 2012, 02:57:57 AM
Don't electro Harmonix already make a Graphic Fuzz pedal?

All the reviews/videos and such I've seen make it out to be more of a straight distortion with a graphic EQ. Not quite the same. You can't do Muff type stuff with it. If I'm wrong, then I'll have to try it out myself.

Thanks for all the info guys. I think it'd be fun to try and get into some of this stuff. Just need the extra time right now. Totally something I think I'd be into/addicted to like you all said. ha

GreenCustom24 · March 25, 2012, 08:13:52 AM

Quote from: Ben N on March 25, 2012, 05:48:44 AM
Simpler than a graft and less cumbersome than an extra loop switch box would be putting an fx loop in the Muff, like the original Marshall Guvnor.

That sounds like an awesome idea. I take it the newer Muff enclosures don't have room for such a mod? I've never opened one up.

Ben N · March 25, 2012, 11:18:02 AM

Dunno about the enclosures. My black Russian has plenty of room, but I doubt that helps you. I wanted to do this with my Rat 2, but I couldn't figure out where to put the jack.

runmikeyrun · March 25, 2012, 11:55:14 AM

I agree that the project you want to do is a bit above your build skill at this time. Not trying to insult your intelligence, but I can say from experience that trying to build complex circuits when you're not ready to only results in many, many hours of chasing your ass and pulling your hair out.

I had a graphic fuzz for a minute about 10 years ago. It was a great pedal, but I returned it because I bought a green russian muff from a friend for $50 and suddenly the $150 Graphic Fuzz was a little unnecessary. It is a great pedal, and I think you can get some muff type tones out of it. Try boosting the low mids. It's a fairly complex pedal and needs to be fiddled with to get your sound. I suggest buying one from a major chain or online and just return it within 30 days if you end up not liking it.

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Graphic Muff?