UPROAR- Suhr Riot Madbean Pedal LED & Output problem

[fair.child]

Hey folks,

Recently, I have built Uproar Pedal. I have a question about my built. Why the Blue and Red LED are not lighted up ? I've done SDMB mods with 47pF and 10n caps at c2, it works perfectly, also the pedal are working, but not as like in the other Uproar demo. Sounds like an usual OD pedal, not high gain pedal, I mean about a lot of gains on it.

Please help me to figure out what happened to my built

I've double check the R1 and R5 value, also R13 and R14 value, they are in the correct value

Here some quick pictures



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Just to clarify, I have double checked the connection between lugs with DMM, and they are connected. I'm having big curiosity about my problem. Perhaps, somebody here will help me to figure it out.

UPDATE:
I tried to change the capacitor into smaller size, but the result still same. I don't get enough hi gain output from my built

Cheers all

[J0K3RX]

You have some big old caps there! I was never really happy with the uproar... never sounded at all like the real thing and I owned a real one so I could compare... No comparison! These mods to the madbean layout turned it into an awesome pedal! Still doesn't sound like the Riot but it has it's own sound and sounds just as good, more of a Marshall JCM fat tone!! I was ready to scrap mine but then I tried these mods and I wouldn't dream of scrapping it now!!

Changes to madbeans schematic are as follows: Thanks to jymaze!!

1.) Jumper wire or 10k to 22k resistor across lugs 2 and 3 of the gain pot.
2.) Change C6 from 470pF to 200pF.
3.) Change R6 from 470R resistor to 1K resistor.
4.) Change D1 thru D4 to 1N4001 diodes.
5.) Add 22n cap in the middle of the rectifier bridge across D1 and D2 - (Optional)
6.) Remove R13 and install jumper wire.
7.) Use B10K for tone control pot.
8.) Change C8 from 36n to 100n cap.
9.) Change R7 from 11.3k resistor to 1K resistor
10.) Connect 100k resistor between C10 and pin 2 of ICA2
11.) Add 180k to 330k resistor between pin 1 and 2 of ICA2

Note: jymaze is only using 1 clipping option ( Replaced D1 thru D4 1n34a with 1N4001 diodes) which requires no toggle switch. However, you can still have all 3 clipping options via the on/on/on toggle, your choice...

[fair.child]

You have some big old caps there! I was never really happy with the uproar... never sounded at all like the real thing and I owned a real one so I could compare... No comparison! These mods to the madbean layout turned it into an awesome pedal! Still doesn't sound like the Riot but it has it's own sound and sounds just as good, more of a Marshall JCM fat tone!! I was ready to scrap mine but then I tried these mods and I wouldn't dream of scrapping it now!!

Changes to madbeans schematic are as follows: Thanks to jymaze!!

1.) Jumper wire or 10k to 22k resistor across lugs 2 and 3 of the gain pot.
2.) Change C6 from 470pF to 200pF.
3.) Change R6 from 470R resistor to 1K resistor.
4.) Change D1 thru D4 to 1N4001 diodes.
5.) Add 22n cap in the middle of the rectifier bridge across D1 and D2 - (Optional)
6.) Remove R13 and install jumper wire.
7.) Use B10K for tone control pot.
8.) Change C8 from 36n to 100n cap.
9.) Change R7 from 11.3k resistor to 1K resistor
10.) Connect 100k resistor between C10 and pin 2 of ICA2
11.) Add 180k to 330k resistor between pin 1 and 2 of ICA2

Note: jymaze is only using 1 clipping option ( Replaced D1 thru D4 1n34a with 1N4001 diodes) which requires no toggle switch. However, you can still have all 3 clipping options via the on/on/on toggle, your choice...

hey jim, thanks about your advice
I have read your post too at madbean forum, I wonder why the documentation still used 1n34a for D1-D4, instead that I should change it to 1n4001. Is there any significant change of it ?

I'm just curious about all of that change, it will be a lot of work to do

thanks in advance Jim

Cheers

[fair.child]

Hey Jim,

it's working, but the led still don't lit up, I'll make some demo about my built.
I worked on jymaze mods, but I didn't change up the C6 to 200pF. I just let it 470pF, because I don't have 200pF in my hand
It really sound like a beast, and 80's lead rock n roll sound, thank you for your sharing

But, I still have big curiosity why the LEDs don't lit up

here's my friend sloppy playing for uproar built, clean channel start 2.01, sorry for the bad quality of quick demo

http://soundcloud.com/andrewraharjo/uproar-madbeanpedals-mods-sdmb

Cheers

[J0K3RX]

You might want to socket the LED's...? The LED's that you are using may be the reason why they are not lighting up? I just use standard low intensity 5mm red LED's for D8 and D9... looks like you are using a 1n914 for D8? Also might want to swap out the LED that you are using for D7 to a low intensity 5mm green or blue... My LED's light up quite brightly depending on how hard I play. I have also used 3mm LED's and they light up as well...

Changing C6 to 200pF makes a noticeable difference. Also the "super duper mid range boost" mod with the switch from 47pF to 10n really gives it a good bump!

Using the 1N4001 diodes in place of the 1n34a on D1-D4 makes a noticeable difference as well!

I really can't see your IC's? Are you using 4580's for IC1 and IC2?

Don't feel bad, I have built about 4 uproars all with the same result... until I did these mods. Now it sounds great but still doesn't have the mojo of the real thing? The real Riot pedal has some magic going on that nobody has seemed to have fully exposed, yet!

[fair.child]

You might want to socket the LED's...? The LED's that you are using may be the reason why they are not lighting up? I just use standard low intensity 5mm red LED's for D8 and D9... looks like you are using a 1n914 for D8? Also might want to swap out the LED that you are using for D7 to a low intensity 5mm green or blue... My LED's light up quite brightly depending on how hard I play. I have also used 3mm LED's and they light up as well...

Changing C6 to 200pF makes a noticeable difference. Also the "super duper mid range boost" mod with the switch from 47pF to 10n really gives it a good bump!

Using the 1N4001 diodes in place of the 1n34a on D1-D4 makes a noticeable difference as well!

I really can't see your IC's? Are you using 4580's for IC1 and IC2?

Don't feel bad, I have built about 4 uproars all with the same result... until I did these mods. Now it sounds great but still doesn't have the mojo of the real thing? The real Riot pedal has some magic going on that nobody has seemed to have fully exposed, yet!

Yes, Jim I wonder how my Riot didn't give me beastly and nasty sound at first, after I changed this mod, I'm quite surprised with the result.
At first, I would thank you for your kindness to share this great mods.

About the LED, Are there any significant differences if my LEDs don't lit up ?  I'm still curious with the result. and yes, I'm using 1n914 for D8, is it the main problem that my LEDs won't lit up ? I'm using blue and red, as mentioned on the uproar madbean documentation.

I will change C6 to 200pF, if I have 200pF Silver Mica, but if don't I will hunt down for it , maybe it will give noticeable "mojo thing" with SDMB mod if I changed it.

My IC1 and IC2 aren't 4580, both of them are 4558's. What do you think aboy my uproar ? Does it sound well ? Please give me an advice

Again, a great appreciation for you Jim and I would say thank you in advance

Cheers all

[J0K3RX]

You might want to socket the LED's...? The LED's that you are using may be the reason why they are not lighting up? I just use standard low intensity 5mm red LED's for D8 and D9... looks like you are using a 1n914 for D8? Also might want to swap out the LED that you are using for D7 to a low intensity 5mm green or blue... My LED's light up quite brightly depending on how hard I play. I have also used 3mm LED's and they light up as well...

Changing C6 to 200pF makes a noticeable difference. Also the "super duper mid range boost" mod with the switch from 47pF to 10n really gives it a good bump!

Using the 1N4001 diodes in place of the 1n34a on D1-D4 makes a noticeable difference as well!

I really can't see your IC's? Are you using 4580's for IC1 and IC2?

Don't feel bad, I have built about 4 uproars all with the same result... until I did these mods. Now it sounds great but still doesn't have the mojo of the real thing? The real Riot pedal has some magic going on that nobody has seemed to have fully exposed, yet!

Yes, Jim I wonder how my Riot didn't give me beastly and nasty sound at first, after I changed this mod, I'm quite surprised with the result.
At first, I would thank you for your kindness to share this great mods.

About the LED, Are there any significant differences if my LEDs don't lit up ?  I'm still curious with the result. and yes, I'm using 1n914 for D8, is it the main problem that my LEDs won't lit up ? I'm using blue and red, as mentioned on the uproar madbean documentation.

I will change C6 to 200pF, if I have 200pF Silver Mica, but if don't I will hunt down for it , maybe it will give noticeable "mojo thing" with SDMB mod if I changed it.

My IC1 and IC2 aren't 4580, both of them are 4558's. What do you think aboy my uproar ? Does it sound well ? Please give me an advice

Again, a great appreciation for you Jim and I would say thank you in advance

Cheers all

Typically, a standard red LED forward voltage is anywhere from 1.8v to 2.0v... (mine are rated at 1.8v)    Greens and blues are higher and can be as high as 3.8v
Mine light up in the Uproar pedal but I have a couple other pedals where the LED's don't light up yet seem to work fine for clipping. I am not sure about clear or high intensity red LED's? I personally don't like the clipping they produce...

In regards to IC1 and IC2.... I have tried a bunch of different dual op-amps including the 4558's but in this pedal the 4580's do sound the best in my opinion and make a big difference! Others have used the TL072's and they were pleased but again I tried these and I still think the 4580's sound the best.

For C6 it doesn't have to be a Silver Mica cap... I used a 200pF ceramic disk and it works just fine. Also, if you can't find a 200pF something close will probably work fine or maybe you can get a couple caps and run them in parallel or series depending on if you want to raise or lower the capacitance to get to the desired value...

[fair.child]

You might want to socket the LED's...? The LED's that you are using may be the reason why they are not lighting up? I just use standard low intensity 5mm red LED's for D8 and D9... looks like you are using a 1n914 for D8? Also might want to swap out the LED that you are using for D7 to a low intensity 5mm green or blue... My LED's light up quite brightly depending on how hard I play. I have also used 3mm LED's and they light up as well...

Changing C6 to 200pF makes a noticeable difference. Also the "super duper mid range boost" mod with the switch from 47pF to 10n really gives it a good bump!

Using the 1N4001 diodes in place of the 1n34a on D1-D4 makes a noticeable difference as well!

I really can't see your IC's? Are you using 4580's for IC1 and IC2?

Don't feel bad, I have built about 4 uproars all with the same result... until I did these mods. Now it sounds great but still doesn't have the mojo of the real thing? The real Riot pesto has some magic going on that nobody has seemed to have fully exposed, yet!

Yes, Jim I wonder how my Riot didn't give me beastly and nasty sound at first, after I changed this mod, I'm quite surprised with the result.
At first, I would thank you for your kindness to share this great mods.

About the LED, Are there any significant differences if my LEDs don't lit up ?  I'm still curious with the result. and yes, I'm using 1n914 for D8, is it the main problem that my LEDs won't lit up ? I'm using blue and red, as mentioned on the uproar madbean documentation.

I will change C6 to 200pF, if I have 200pF Silver Mica, but if don't I will hunt down for it , maybe it will give noticeable "mojo thing" with SDMB mod if I changed it.

My IC1 and IC2 aren't 4580, both of them are 4558's. What do you think aboy my uproar ? Does it sound well ? Please give me an advice

Again, a great appreciation for you Jim and I would say thank you in advance

Cheers all

Typically, a standard red LED forward voltage is anywhere from 1.8v to 2.0v... (mine are rated at 1.8v)    Greens and blues are higher and can be as high as 3.8v
Mine light up in the Uproar pesto but I have a couple other pestos where the LED's don't light up yet seem to work fine for clipping. I am not sure about clear or high intensity red LED's? I personally don't like the clipping they produce...

In regards to IC1 and IC2.... I have tried a bunch of different dual op-amps including the 4558's but in this pesto the 4580's do sound the best in my opinion and make a big difference! Others have used the TL072's and they were pleased but again I tried these and I still think the 4580's sound the best.

For C6 it doesn't have to be a Silver Mica cap... I used a 200pF ceramic disk and it works just fine. Also, if you can't find a 200pF something close will probably work fine or maybe you can get a couple caps and run them in parallel or series depending on if you want to raise or lower the capacitance to get to the desired value...

Hi Jim,

Thank for your reply,
So If I'm not wrong, I will be okay if the LEDs don't lit up, won't it ? I haven't double checked the voltages near both of them, but your measurement seems legit and give me good information about red/blue/ other LED forward voltages.

About the Silver Mic's, yeah I will change it soon, it just matter of time then about both IC's. I don't have 4580 on my hand. It seems pretty rare in my country, so my decision to change them to 4558 is the nearest and best suitable IC's (I had tried LF and OPA burr brown - stamped made in MALAYSIA, but it didn't give my best result for me ). If I hand on 4580, then I will try it. Could you describe a lil bit about the differences between them ?

Again, Thank you Jim, I surfed around here, and maybe you're the best and kind man to help everybody problems here

Cheers 

[ppm01]

good modification.

[jymaze]

I concur!

[deadastronaut]

hard to tell without seeing a layout, but are the diodes meant to be facing all the same way?..