the little chemical that would'nt

[petey twofinger]

DRY !!

i shot this pedal w/ krylon crystal clear coat .

first time i let it dry under a bulb in a box for 4 days  , i set it down on a paper towel , and the pattern from the towel indented the finish .

take 2 , i sanded and reshot , again with a ton of clear . this paint job was kinda special , and it took me a long time ... a moth landed in the clear overnight .

take 3 i let it dry in the lamp box for a week , also rotating it from hot to cold , in a protective box , in 30 minute intervals , for two 4 hour days .  then i let it sit for a week and a half . then i thought it was dry , and tossed the parts bag with the jacks and switches in it  on top of it . guess what happened . the baggie indented the clear , almost all the way down top the paint .

so i am either putting way too much on , or i got a bad batch .

when i shoot i do it in ten minute intervals , i start with flash coats and work up to thicker coats . till its about 2 mm , or so .

any one ever run into this , am i an idiot or what ?

i am thinking of getting a different brand , doing much lighter coats , with 48 hours in between . also not going for such a thick finish . just enough to make it nice and "safe" .

i am guessing i should stick with an acrylic , instead of mixing it up with poly or something different now , but dang it . this pedal killed me .

[Earthscum]

light coats, at least half hour between coats. I think, generally, Krylon is 1/2 to 4 hour re-shoot time. I usually go about an hour unless I'm blocking primer, then I'll usually hit it in half hour intervals.

About 3 coats should be fine, third one a bit heavier, just enough to ensure it's a nice, smooth coat, and that's all. The thicker it is, the more prone to large chips it will be if you get it to cure correctly.

[chromesphere]

take 2 , i sanded and reshot , again with a ton of clear . this paint job was kinda special , and it took me a long time ... a moth landed in the clear overnight .

Oh man this made me laugh.  I remember one time when i used to spray paint enclosures i had THE PERFECT clearcoat job.  It was spot on!  I put the last coat on, came back in an hour and a moth was stuck to it.  It was the last straw for rattle cans for me    Mind you, powder coating has its issues as well.

Yeah 4 days is crazy for dry time, something wrong there.  I dont know if you have it in the states but i use whiteknight.  Even their cheaper "squirts" line works well.

Paul

Edit: Oh been meaning to say, i like your channel too Pete, informative and entertaining!

[StereoKills]

I use Krylon clear coat as well. Lots of super thin layers waiting 1/2-1 hour between coats. I usually do 5-7 coats then let it dry for 1 or 2 days. Never had a problem. I think the key is laying down the very light coats.

[petey twofinger]

i am really at a loss here cause i do realize how heavy i over sprayed this thing . but at the same turn , i think with all the intensified dry time , there must have been something up with that batch of cylon , er , krylon .

we were actually just watching the remake of cattlecar gallactica aka 'sluttystar sluttacula" and my wife was constantly referring to the cylons as ... krylons .

i had sanded it down and reshot the black on the sides last night , then i put it in the "easy bake" ( waring toaster oven ) for an hour . the clear that had been sanded on the top was all masked off for the reshooting of the black , that like re-melted and is nice and clear now . but there are like a dozen lil blue lines from the edges of the painters tape ... now if these were not there i would just leave it . the new re-sanded , re-baked finish had cured properly !

so yeah , maybe it was just way too thick ?

either way , from now on , i am gonna shoot that stuff a lot lighter , and also extend the dry time between coats . the cylon directions are different than the typical "4 hour window" you see with "normal" cheap spraint .

did i mention how much i HATE painting ?

[Govmnt_Lacky]

I use Rustoleum enamels exclusively. I am definitely a proponent of "light coats" of paint. Usually, I spray the initial coat so lightly that I can still see some of the enclosure aluminum. I typically wait about 20-30 minutes between light coats. About 4-5 coats and I get total coverage.

Bottom line is that you WILL get eventual chips and scratches with paint! If you don't want these then you probably need to go with powder coating. Even then, you will get the occasional ding (it just wont make you feel as bad  )

[petey twofinger]

i learned a few lessons about spraint on the first one i did , this flanger i painted , tried to make it look " pro  " with a fancy paint scheme , utilizing some maskin tape and TWO shades of yellow , but it just resembles a grilled cheese sammich . the irony is , its a rehoused dano fab . the first time i put the chassis screws in it all chipped away around the screw holes . if i had proper businesses sensibility i would do a burned Les Paul cameo on the top and ebay the thing for paint $$$ / insect repellent  .

this problem with the indentations on the clear was really bad news though . after a week and a half of dry time i set it down face first on a paper towel ( like the blue ones that you (( I )) steal from the gas station ) and the corrugated pattern from the paper towel was massively imprinted IN the clear , like deep . like the moth wasnt bad enough , the "hot" paper towel comes back to bite me in the ass ! also the baggie of parts resting on it for a day dug down to the paint .

i am almost tempted to fool myself into believing that it was a bad batch AND i used way too much , too soon , but ... i really dont know . i guess i will find out when i reshoot with the same can .  i do intend to update this thread  , for anyone who read it all ! (srry) .

i had garbage picked 2 cans of cylon , one clear and one satin , the satin was ok , when i shot the "clear" it had fouled with age i guess , cause it came out al brown , kinda like diarrhea , unless i miss-read the can .... and it was krylon clear "satan" , this krylon businesses seems demonic  .

i am also curious about "self etching primer" , as to , does it prevent chipping , or whats the upside with this product , and also , where do i get my hands on some ?

[deadastronaut]

did i mention how much i HATE painting ?

thats why i just etch ...i don't like chips/digs/scratches....however i do clearcoat after..and stick it straight in the toaster oven  for 10mins..clear and glass like...

it cures it enough for moths/dust/ to not damage the finish..

[petey twofinger]

what temp ?

mine turns on at what is labeled 150 , i did try it once and i seem to remember bubbles (not the chimp) and some yellowing , something " not good " .

here is what this piece of trash looks like at the moment , before i ruin it some more , i took one for posterities sake ...



you can see some damage at the bottom left . i have had it messing with this though . everytime i did anything there was stuff i had to fix so , i am pretty much just done . i was so thrilled when it was time to shoot the clear . what a noob .

[Earthscum]

what temp ?

mine turns on at what is labeled 150 , i did try it once and i seem to remember bubbles (not the chimp) and some yellowing , something " not good " .

If that's 150 Celsius, then yeah... definitely gonna "toast" it. I like about 150 F (actually, about 175-225 range). If you use a dedicated oven, you could try aluminum foil to keep the direct heat away from the bottom. The heat will collect in the box and make it bubble.

Also, preheat. If ya don't (or if ya figured this one out, then this is for others) then the heating elements will bake the hell out of your paint while they are trying to get the oven to warm up. I tried (last time I did it, so I haven't tried it since) heating up to 300, then I put the thing in and turned down the heat, so that when the elements DID kick on, it wouldn't take much to warm back up to temp. Seemed to work a charm (remember how much heat you lose opening the door).

[amptramp]

Ii am also curious about "self etching primer" , as to , does it prevent chipping , or whats the upside with this product , and also , where do i get my hands on some ?

Some car parts stores carry it to cater to the people who paint cast aluminum valve/cam covers.  Since it etches the aluminum, it grips the metal better and is less likely to flake off.

[petey twofinger]

thanks amptramp , i see they have it at advance auto parts , online anyweay , not sure bout in store , but granger has it . gonna try this stuff soon .

and ES , yeah i use Fahrenheit , ( chicago here ) .

its a lil waring toaster oven , i use only the bottom element . there is a deflection plate above that , then the rack , i have a lil cardboard box with a screw thru it like a handle  that i set the chassis on . its covered in paper , and i have rows of small dowel rods glued on it to elevate / stablize .

what i did a few times was let the clear cure for a half hour under a lamp , surrounded by ceral boxs . then put it in the oven on 150 .

i seem to remember putting something w/ fresh clear on it straight in the oven and then there was a problem with bubbling / discoloration . that also could have been that bad krylon i garbage picked though ...

i just got the chassis all ready to go , its in the oven @ 175 for a half hour . gonna see if the clear that i sanded "smooths out again' like it did the last time i sanded it and put it in the oven . only difference this time is there is no blue painters tape on the clear . i am thinkin i might not even have to spray . if the clear re-sets , looks good , i am gonna do a super light coat on the sides / maybe top and let it dry (somehow) for a few days !

i gotta re-read this thread . i would like to bake the krylon , not sure if thats kosher to do it right after shooting . hmmm . 175 , mabe wait 20 minutes then throw her in .

thanks everyone !!

wish me luck . i am gonna hermetically seal this pedal and just stare at it for a year , after the hell i went thru to finish it  .

[Earthscum]

Lol... Put it on your pedalboard under glass with a remote switch.

You should always let paint dry for a couple hours before throwing it in an oven. It will discolor like that even if you let it dry in the sun on a hot day. The solvents are meant to evaporate at a certain rate to set the paint. If you drive them off too fast the paint doesn't achieve the proper bond. The paint will  become more crystal like and brittle or uncured rubbery than polymer like and cohesive with the coated surface.

Sounds like a good setup. Being in an apartment, mine is improv every time, lol. At least I have a concrete patio to do stuff on, just gotta pack it up after it's cool.

[Mustachio]

Lots of info from lots of great builders! awesome ! Petey! you crack me up with all the funny lines you got like the wife calling cylon, krylon all day hahaha !

Ive had my share of problems with rustoleum and krylon clear and paints. I had most of my problems spraying in cold weather (chicago area as well) . Now in the first post I see you say you sprayed 2mm thick of clear that seems either like a miss judgment of how thick or you really sprayed a ton of clear cause that's way thick for clear in a can.

Ive had ok luck doing light coats every 5-10 minutes in temperatures around 70+ F with relatively low humidity around 60% anything other then that temp Ive had problems and had to do a song and dance to fix . If you can run your toaster oven lower then 150 id suggest that. Heck at 90F and low humidity things like paint and even epoxys dry pretty fast. I would be worried of messing up the bond between the paint and aluminum.

I always spray a nice layer of primer down before I paint a top coat. I believe I use self etching primer. I usually dont mix brands but the last build i did which was a Tremulus lune I used krylon primer and rustoleum top coat and it turned out really nice.

Now here's what I've changed about my process in the last 4 or 5 pedals. I gave up the spray on clear and I switched over to Pour-On. Its the same stuff they use to cover bar tops and tables with items under them like old news paper clippings ect. One coat of it equals 50 coats of varnish. Its pretty simple to use low smell and its forgiving to errors. you can get a 32ounce kit I believe at menards for 16 bucks. Its a 2 part system just use 2 cups, equal parts, mix, transfer cups, then mix and transfer back and your ready to pour.

I gotta say its a great looking clear and tuff as nails!

Petey I like the paint job it looks awesome good luck on clearing it ! Hope it all goes well!

[petey twofinger]

thanks ,

we live in an apt here so , i just really have the place "dialed in" and the landlord LOVES me .

when i mentioned 2 mm , that was after shooting it thick every ten minutes , like a ton of repetitions of that , honestly it was 2 mm thick !  i am guessing maybe my temp in the light box was too high , cause i put a thermometer in there and it was like 120 ! i think its a 100 watt bulb ?

that may be why i had the issues , that plus too thick , etc .

the coat i just put on , i switched t a full can and the first side got way too much . i also had it under the hot lamp for 30 minutes then to the oven on 150 and it orange peeled a lil , so . this coat is gonna have to dry and get sanded down a lil . i am gonna swap the bulb out to a much lower value , try to nail it at 90 degrees and just let it sit in the light box for an hour between coats . i will also run the AC in here , just to keep the humidity down .

the paint scheme on this is a rip off of adrian belews old mustang . i believe that is inspired by picasso ?  a rip off of a rip off , using garbage picked clear coat , and stolen paint (it was a gift , from a junkie , dont ask) , this thing has so much bad karma around it , i wouldnt be surprised if the cylons actually showed up arrested my ass . the stolen paper towels , that was the clincher . i am gonna go to the gas station , pre pay 50 and only put 25 in ...

i really like that other idea , that 2 part epoxy stuff , 16 bucks , how many pedals can you do w/ it , tell me its more than one ! i am kinda really broke ( back injury , no work ) . i did see that stuff in another thread and it did look excellent .

[Mustachio]

Ive done about 4 or 5 pedals with my pour-on kit and Ive not even used an 1/8th of it id guess you could get around 30 + out of the 16 bucks maybe more maybe 50! probably depends on the size of the pedals I covered a few 1590BB 1590TrapB and some budindustries cu471's all pretty nice size id call em medium boxes.

Trust me the spraycans can be trouble If you go by the back of the can exactly you might have a chance haha. Ive had my share of troubles with paints doing weird stuff and I attributed it to the temp/humidity. Be carefull with hot bulbs inside cardboard with paint fumes, seems like a fire hazard. I used a heating pad under the cardboard box a few times seemed to help a lil. Probably a fire hazzard too haha. 

Gonna try to post some pics of my builds later tonight I have some examples of spray clear and pour-on waterslide decals and sticker paper and paint. Might give an idea on what you might wanna try.

[DuctTapeRiot]

Hi Petey, I have used self etching primer for a while now. I love it, I think it definitely helps hold the paint on there better, but MAN it stinks.  I have also been using the Envirotex a lot lately (called Parks Glaze sometimes?).  If you like the thick super glossy clear coat look, it is the way to go for sure.  You get a hella thick coating in one pour, it hardens as tough as nails, and the high wet looking gloss really brings out metallic and perloid paint effects. 

Some thoughts on the pour on:
- Only do 1 or 2 pedals at a time, it has about 20 min of working time after you mix it.  If you wait too long (ie try to do too many at once) the little bubbles in wont be able to rise to the surface.
- Whatever rig you are going to put your pedals on to do the pour, make sure it is very level.
- "Paint" the sides of the enclosure with a bit of envirotex to help break the surface tension, this will help the pour flow nicely over the edges and get everything good and coated.
- Dust is your mortal enemy.

I am a bit of a noob on this site, but if you hit BYOC and search my user name you will see some good examples of how the envirotex comes out

[Earthscum]

- Dust is your mortal enemy.

Boy, that ain't no joke, lol! There's a reason you spend so much on any kind of decent paint booth. 

[davent]

- Dust is your mortal enemy.

Boy, that ain't no joke, lol! There's a reason you spend so much on any kind of decent paint booth. 

That's what the splatter paint technique is for, can't tell the difference between paint splatter and the late arriving dust. After clearcoating, put the enclosure in a shoe box or something similar, to dry.

[frank_p]

I used the Dupli-Color brand they sell at Canadian-Tire stores (for cars) with a general purpose etching primer.  Clear with the same brand.  I had sooo much nightmares with Krylon acrylics that I've abandoned.  I thought that I could paint in the winter in a garage with that suff, no luck too: everything would peel off eventually...   Stay with the same brand of polyurethane from solid to clear and follow the manufacturer instructions.   Do the polyurethane painting in a very VERY well ventilated place : I do that only in the summer and outside.  If there is dust do some wet sanding: just take care for the clear.   Polyurethane dries very hard so it wont get scratched as easy as acrylic.