AMT B1-S1 Clone

[J0K3RX]

Here is my latest S1 - B1 combo board. You can either build this as the B1 or the S1 pedals, just a matter of jumpers and adding or subtracting parts... I moved the tone stack to a separate board and  I also added a presence control which I think is great! You might even be able to build the E1 on this layout as well but I am not sure of a couple parts values at the moment. There are 2 caps on the S1 layout pictured that are not confirmed but I believe 220n and 47n will work fine... If not, you can mess around till you get the right ones.. maybe socket them? I will make the B1 layout shortly and it is fully verified.  And no, there is no cab simulation on this because I have not been able to get it working, yet!  

[deadastronaut]

a six fet monster!!!... nice one jim!..

[meffcio]

Great, keep going!
This is definitely what I'm gonna put into my bedroom amp.

[caspercody]

Can you post the schematics for these?

thanks
Rob

[J0K3RX]

Can you post the schematics for these?

thanks
Rob

Here's what I have Rob.. First is the E1 clone and the other is the B1... Personally I think the E1 sounds the best but the B1 sounds fantastic also! Never got the S1 to work properly... something wrong in the schematic so no use posting that one...

Engl - E1
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11178619/Like%20E1%20v4.jpg

Bogner - B1
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11178619/B1.png

Both of these sound killer!!! I have a real P1 and I never use it, these sound better!

[J0K3RX]

On the B1 schematic the 12k resistors coming from the J201's drains are trim pots.. Right click on the links and save them to file, sorry they are so big...

[caspercody]

Thanks!

[therecordingart]

Any sound samples? I'm going to trace the layouts so I can cut these PCBs on my CNC. What are the PCB dimensions?

[J0K3RX]

Here is the one that I used for the B1.. I used DIYLC to draw the layout and Sprint to make the transfer, don't ask me why. There are small differences but they are pretty much the same. This one doesn't have a separate board for the tone stack. On the first one I posted a couple of the pots are backwards on the tone stack board so you might want to make your own or tweak mine..

[J0K3RX]

Any sound samples? I'm going to trace the layouts so I can cut these PCBs on my CNC. What are the PCB dimensions?

No sound samples yet, at least not any that I want to post due to my sh!t playing The B1 is almost an exact part for part copy of the B1 minus the cab sim and using J201's for the transistors where the original uses 2SK208-R's and BAT54's for the diode so it sounds almost identical to the actual B1 maybe a little better... The E1 I traced from gut pics somebody posted from another forum.. I had to guess on a lot of parts but since AMT uses the the same board for the E1, B1 and P1 I just referenced my real P1 and filled in the blanks so to speak... I think I did a pretty damn good job cause it sounds killer! The addition of the presence knob is just something that I added and I think it's great!! At 9v these bias from the drain at around 6v. Another thing is these can probably run @ 12v or 18v if you use the right parts.. not sure what the benefit would be since I haven't tried and I don't know what they would bias at? One thing that I have been doing is I bias the pedal and get it right where I like it best then I remove the trim pots, ohm out each one and replace them with resistors of the same value.. sometimes I have to use a couple resistors in series to get an odd ball value exact. Then I can re-use my trimmers Plus I heard that fixed resistors produce less noise than a trim pot, don't know if that's true or not?

B-SHARP
PCB dimensions: dX112.4mm  dY42mm  

The first one I posted is 104.8mm by 40mm

Actually I just did a couple test prints in MS Paint and used a % of the original size, I think like 17%

[J0K3RX]

Ok, here's a crap sample of the B1... did it real fast, too much delay, off beat, tired gotta go to bed, it is what it is... I can get a better sound out of it just didn't really take the time, hope it doesn't run anybody off from making these cause they sound damn good!!!

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11178619/B1%20TEST2.mp3

[deadastronaut]

yeah...kicks a dr boogie out of the way... 

[J0K3RX]

yeah...kicks a dr boogie out of the way... 

Yeah, you are right! The E1 kicks even harder!! 

[MetalGuy]

It looks like there's a common "disease" in the DIY forums to trace a schematic and before attempting an exact copy to propose all kind of mods and as a result you end up with something different. It's not necessarily worse than the original but it's just not a copy or a clone.
2SK208-R are hard to get but you can score some 2SK30 (R graded)  from Ebay and some BAT85 as well if you're getting sick from SMDs. I'm sure the people designing these pedals had something in mind when choosing the original parts. Of course there's always room for all kind of experiments.

[J0K3RX]

Ok, here is what I have.. It's the Bogner B1 with some minor tweeks and cab simulation with bass and treble knobs for the cab sim. Like the AMT it has 2 outputs, one straight preamp out and one preamp cab sim out. If you hit the bypass while you are running out of the cab sim output it just turns off the preamp, the cab sim is still on so you can use it for just a cab sim if you want with other preamps or whatever.... Sounds F'ing incredible to me!!!   In the sound sample I am running out of the P1 into the cab sim in my pedal. Then just the P1 with it's cab sim so you can compare. Then the B1 clone pedal itself with the cab sim. Still waiting on knobs...  I think this sounds better than all of my stuff!!! The ENGL and Diezel are next and I can't wait to get them done!

Top 6 knobs are from left to right (Gain - Bass - Mid -Treb - Pres - Vol) basically like the AMT pedals with the added presence knob. The next row of 2 knobs are for the Cab/Speaker simulation left to right (Lows - Highs)... I know it's a lot of knobs but believe it or not there is still room for a battery inside.. BTW - the cab sim that I built uses two J201's and is NOT a copy of the AMT cab sim circuit!



I just had some teeth pulled so I ain't gonna be playin nothing worth a damn but here are some short samples completely dry no nuthin!

This sample is just so you can compare the AMT internal cab sim with the cab sim that I built.
This is the actual AMT P1 pedal - The first and the last takes are the P1 cab sim out. All knobs set to 12 o'clock in all takes. Completely dry no effects, no nuthin!
All of the takes in between the first and last takes are the P1 running out of the regular non-cab simulated output into my pedal using just the cab sim in my pedal.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11178619/CAB%20SIM%20TESTP1final.mp3

Here is the pedal itself, B1 clone using the cab sim and I am fiddlin with cab sim knobs a bit. Again completely dry, no effects nothin...
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11178619/CAB%20SIM%20TESTB1final.mp3

[FiveseveN]

You copied the post with truncated URLs Here are the actual links to the sound samples:
P1: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11178619/CAB%20SIM%20TESTP1final.mp3
B1 clone: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11178619/CAB%20SIM%20TESTB1final.mp3

Could you give more details about your cabsim, please?

PS: well, you beat me to it and edited your post in the meantime.

[J0K3RX]

You copied the post with truncated URLs Here are the actual links to the sound samples:
P1: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11178619/CAB%20SIM%20TESTP1final.mp3
B1 clone: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11178619/CAB%20SIM%20TESTB1final.mp3

Could you give more details about your cabsim, please?

FiveseveN - Yeah I noticed that after I posted.. I fixed it now thanks!

About the cab sim - you're gonna laugh, maybe! But the thing kicks @ss in my opinion and has low part count and very small.. perfect!
It's a slightly modified version of this using J201's instead of the MPF102's
http://www.runoffgroove.com/cabsim.html
I will post the board layout I made and what I used later today after I get home from work.. also some gut shots of the pedal.

[deadastronaut]

thats a tiny sim....nice!.

[MetalGuy]

The sound of a cabsim is so far from reality. You can tell the difference right away.
I'm convinced these pedals will sound much better if you run them through real amp and cabinet.

[J0K3RX]

The sound of a cabsim is so far from reality. You can tell the difference right away.
I'm convinced these pedals will sound much better if you run them through real amp and cabinet.

Disagree - my sh!t recording maybe, but I think AMT has some of the best cab simulation available at an affordable price.

Tell me this sounds like "so far from reality?" This is the D2, E2 and P2 all using the AMT cabsim in each pedal...

I am friends with Fred and he says their isn't much if any difference Between the Legend II and Legend series pedals as far as the tone and cab simulation are concerned.  The only difference is they have a clean level boost for when the pedal is in bypass and an amp overdrive/distortion out so you can run it into the front of an amp rather than through the effects return or stand alone power amp. As far as the transistors are concerned, I have spent hours going through the Russian forums reading what I could translate and I believe the J201 is a very suitable substitute for the 2SK208-R.  These pedals are not new, the Russians have been developing them since 2006 and probably even before that.. Only in recent production models has Victor used the 2SK208-R's probably for various reasons like availability, size, easy to use for mass production (SMD) and of course functionality...  But, he and other well known Russian pedal builders commonly used KP303A, E, X and KP103E and others. There are many schematics for these pedals all using various transistors, diodes etc... I have looked at the specs of the J201 vs. 2SK208-R and 2SK30R and there is not that much of a difference except that J201's are far more easy to get your hands on! The 2SK30R's are rare, I have only found one guy on ebay selling a very limited quantity.. There is a guy on ebay selling the 2SK208Y but obviously they will NOT work but, if you message him he can get you the 2SK208R for about double the price which still isn't bad, like $60.00 for 100qty. Personally I have about 500 J201's so I'ma use them b!tches up!!!

Here are some quotes from Victor Kampf (Xbananov) the man himself talking about substitutes...
Hellow to all.

It is not necessary very carefully to select details.
This device will work after installation of any properly functioning builders.
Versions of possible substitution are reduced below.
Russian KP303A,X-->J201
KP303I' -->2N5457,2N5458

Russian KP303A and KP303I ' have a low noise and allow to receive fine result.
The application J201 and 2N5457,58 will give hardly the greater noise probably (but it will be noticeably only in a position "MIN" of a level regulator on a guitar)
In speakersim circuit:
Russian p-channel KP103 -->J2N5020
KP303X-->J201
I hope, that this information will be useful.
I wish success to all.
Xbananov

Another well known and respected Russian builder "Medved"
Medved:
Quote

What can be used as a sub....if anything?
What is "sub"?

Quote

parts substitutions
T1 KP303E<--> 2N5458, 2N5459 ( VGS(OFF) = 4...5V )
T2, T3, ?4 KP303A, KP303>|< <--> J201
T6 KP103E<--> 2N5020
Silicon diodes D2,D3 1N4148
Op-amp LM324
Pt1,Pt2<--> J271, 2N5461, 2N5462, J175, J174, 2N5115
pt1,pt2 -dual p-jfet. With discrete p-JFETs some minor tuning is needed.

Here's some other cool pedal using schematics commonly found in the Russian forums...
http://www.nikitaeffects.com/jfet/jfet_series_en.html

I don't disagree with your saying that these pedals would probably sound good/better through a power amp and a real cab but I think the cab emulation is top notch man!
Most metal guitar you hear in productions has been enhanced and many tracks are used 4 , 8, 16 etc... I think these do a killer job of reproducing a great foundation guitar tone! $139.00 for an AMT P1 vs. $2K for a 5150 II,III head and cab and throw in another $99.00 for an SM57 etc.. I'ma poor man so guess which one I gonna buy? Hell, I could buy the whole AMT line including the new Stonehead for less... But, I would rather build my own stuff cause it's more fun!