Jake's Dr. Boogey build

J0K3RX · August 25, 2012, 02:17:06 AM

Quote from: jmapesreinhardt on August 25, 2012, 01:06:57 AM
Jim, I already compared Radioshack prices to Small Bear and Small Bear kicked Radioshack's ass. The only stuff I have from Radioshack is my soldering gun, some heatshrink tubing, some non-shielded wire, and some desoldering braid. I already got sh*t about my soldering gun too, so all things considered, a bulk order through either Mouser or Small Bear with consolidated shipping seems like my best bet - I don't mind tediously selecting individual parts.

I'm finding this post educational: http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=98763.0 (click)

I have an unusual amount of free time this weekend and I'm spending it reading about this stuff. Even this first demo pedal, I want it to be a quality job planned first and then done right the first time or close to it (that's the point). I will be posting pictures and progress when the time comes... maybe even videos.

I only pointed you to radioshack for the resistors and solder... Quote: "I already compared Radioshack prices to Small Bear and Small Bear kicked Radioshack's ass."

I don't see a 500 piece resistor kit for anywhere even close to $12.99 at small bear with all of the following values.... Unless I am missing something?
30 each of 1k, 10k, and 100k; ten each of 1, 10, 100, 120, 150, 220, 330, 470, 560, 1.5k, 2.2k, 3.3k, 4.7k, 15k, 22k, 47k, 220k, 470k, 1meg, and 10meg; five each of 2.2, 15, 22, 33, 39, 51, 68, 82, 180, 270, 390, 510, 680, 820, 1.2k, 1.8k, 2.7k, 3k, 3.9k, 5.1k, 5.6k, 6.8k, 8.2k, 12k, 18k, 27k, 33k, 39k, 51k, 56k, 68k, 82k, 120k, 150k, 180k, 270k, 330k, 1.5meg, 2.2meg, 3.3meg, and 4.7meg.

I get my resistors from ebay... I can get thousands for $20.00 and I can choose the values that I want.

therockdemon · August 25, 2012, 04:45:04 PM

I'm going to need a grand total of 44 resistors for the 3 pedals I intend to build. I'll individually select these from the Mouser site. From my understanding, I'll be buying resistors with the following qualities:

1% or better tolerance
metal film
through-hole (not SMD)
Axial
ROHS compliant

So these would be my top 2 choices for the 1M I'm going to need. Everything else I buy would then follow suit (same qualities, different values).
1% tolerance for $0.06 each (click)
.1% tolerance for $0.29 each (click)

Is there anything I should be aware of? For example, if I accidentally bought SMD resistors, I would have been screwed. =]

mremic01 · August 25, 2012, 05:12:12 PM

You don't need .1% resistors at all. Just 1% are more precise than you'll ever need, and very few builds require even that. Most people here seem to be fine with 5% carbon film, which you can get for about 1 cent per resistor. I would never pay 29 cents, or even 6 cents for a resistor. That's just way too much. Tayda has great prices, but their resistors feel pretty cheap. I like to get mine from Futurlec for about the same price, but they're much nicer. Wherever you get them, between 1 and 3 cents is about right.

Most of the things you listed don't really matter. Metal film is 'quieter', but for stompboxes, you will never hear any difference. Avoid SMD components unless you know you want to use them. We mostly use through-hole. I don't think I've ever seen a radial resistor, all the through-hole resistors I've seen are axial. ROHS compliance really only matters for mass-manufacturing. From what I understand, it's to avoid having tons of electronics with nasty stuff in them sitting in landfills. For DIYing, it's ok if something isn't ROHS.

I think you're worrying about little things too much. You might be better off starting with a kit so all the component picking is done for you, and then you can get to know what these things are, what they look like, how to identify them, and all that good stuff. Ordering things you can't see before going through your first build just gets really confusing.

For what it's worth, I hate resistor kits. You usually wind up with a lot of values you'll never use. I wish I hadn't gotten any, and instead stocked up on values I knew I'd need. Now I've got a box full of values that I can't even use to stick in series with other values. Placing one big order at Futurlec, you can stock up on all the values you'll need for a long time for the cost of a kit, and wind up with values you actually want at 1 cent per resistor.

For switches, we usually use the blue taiwanese 3pdts. Dpdts will work fine and allow you to do true bypass, but that leaves you without an LED. There's millenium switching for dpdts, but a 3pdt just makes life easier.

J0K3RX · August 25, 2012, 06:19:43 PM

I agree with mremic01...

Another option - you can order this kit and put it together... good for beginners and you don't have to worry about gathering parts etc...
http://uk-electronic.de/onlineshop/product_info.php/cPath/105_248/products_id/1710?osCsid=1d531e244fa2739287036c669d25c37f

therockdemon · August 25, 2012, 07:45:09 PM

QuoteuF = microfarad, MFD
nF = nanofarad
pF = picofarad, MMFD

Quote1uF = 1000nF = 1000000 pF
.001uF = 1nF = 1000pF
.000001uF = .001nF = 1pf

therockdemon · August 25, 2012, 08:16:24 PM

mremic01 that's a great post - thank you! The only thing is that I don't want to do a kit. I'm also not going to buy electrical components from futurlec or smallbear that don't have tolerances listed. I am trying to have respect for using quality parts (1% tolerance on resistors; 5% on capacitors except 100uF capacitors are 10%).

Next, capacitors. I need 50 for my builds, various values. At first, I looked and saw the various kinds (polyester film box, mylar film box, ceramic, electrolytic) and was unsure about what these were about, but low and behold - I figured it out! You use certain types for certain value ranges.

It looks like you use ceramic caps up to 100pF, panasonic poly film up to 920pF, film box caps for 1nF-1uF, and electrolytic above 1uF. All should be through-hole, and 5% tolerance. Does radial/axial matter? Does dielectric matter?

mremic01 · August 25, 2012, 08:49:29 PM

I don't even know what dialectric means, but axial components lay flat on their side, while radial components have the leads sticking out the bottom. We usually use radial caps, but axial will work fine. You just might have to stand the cap up and bend one of the leads to get it to fit.

We usually use ceramics for pf values, film caps for uf values under 1uf, and electros for everything above that. The reason for that is mostly size. A 47uf film cap would be pretty big, but a 47uf electrolytic will most likely fit on a smaller pcb pretty easily. There's all kinds of talk about how different kinds of caps sound, if they sound different at all. I wouldn't worry about that until you're comfortable with the basics. You can really use any kind of cap as long as it's the right value. You can easily stick a non-polarized cap in where a polarized one was, but if you use a polarized cap in place of a non-polarized one, you need to know which direction the signal's flowing to orient it correctly.

You also want to make sure your caps are rated for more voltage than they will actually see in a circuit. Most stompboxes will run at 9 volts, but 18 volts is pretty common too, so I tend to get components rated for at least 25v.

5% is about as tight a tolerance as your going to get for film and ceramic caps. For electrolytics, you'll never really see closer than 20%. At 100uf, it shouldn't matter. You'll probably only use those in sections of the circuit where you won't hear a difference between a 100uf cap that actually measures in at 80uf or 120uf. It's usually ok to substitute the next closest value too. So if you can't find 5uf, 4.7uf should be fine. 22pf might be easier to find than 20pf, so you could always use one of those. For the Dr Boogie, don't forget that there are some 200pf's in there too.

95 cents for a 4.7uf electrolytic seems like a lot, but that's probably because of the tighter tolerance. Tayda's got those for 2 cents a piece and they're great.

therockdemon · August 25, 2012, 09:00:21 PM

Thanks again mremic01! Really helpful again. I figured that 100uF and other high values were probably a ballpark that would be fine within 10%, or I guess even 20% huh? I'm not trying to cheap out on this, but spending an extra quarter or $0.50 here and there with no tonal difference is pointless.

deadastronaut · August 25, 2012, 09:49:19 PM

get the j201's in the same ''style'' as your 5089's...

those j201's you linked to are smd.....very tiny

.....unless your doing smd (surface mount) stuff of course...

therockdemon · August 25, 2012, 10:07:03 PM

therockdemon · August 25, 2012, 10:33:51 PM

How would you guys interpret "C22" on this (click) near the top?

*added capacitors to above post*

mremic01 · August 25, 2012, 11:43:12 PM

That's 4.7nf. Same thing as 4n7. I think using the n's or u's as the decimal is done more commonly in Europe, but you'll see it here too. That bill of material is just inconsistent. The Dr Boogie used to call for a 5nf, I think. That must be where madbean is getting the nearest value, since I've never even come across a 5nf cap.

therockdemon · August 25, 2012, 11:46:19 PM

mremic01, I think chose the right cap - 5th from the top in that list. They exist!

Trimmers! Which would I be best off with?
Through Hole 100K 6MM 20% tolerance
Through Hole 100Kohms 10mm 20% tolerance
Through Hole 1/4"SQ 100KOHMS 10% tolerance

therockdemon · August 26, 2012, 12:27:17 AM

Hey J0K3RX

I did some string-pulling and it turns out I do have access to a drill press with carbide bits. I'd like to investigate further into making boards. You linked me to this store:
http://stores.ebay.com/pcblaminatescopperclad

Quotedownload the layout and print it on acetate (clear plastic.) using a laser toner printer(normal printers wont work)then iron the image onto a piece of copper clad board...now soak in ferric chloride and watch the remaining copper dissappear..clean of the ink ...voila..you now have the image...drill holes and your done..

And there's the method I found somewhere on this (click) page (yes I read every damned comment on that whole page).

I would guess this (click) would be the correct board for me to use. I'm going to use this (click) method to make the board.

therockdemon · August 26, 2012, 02:38:44 AM

At this point, this is what I plan to buy. This spreadsheet has a link for every item I still need to purchase along with all prices and other information. It all totals up at the bottom to $135.10 plus shipping.

...I still haven't really figured out what I'm doing for wire or shielded wire. I have some non-shielded wire laying around but not sure if I should use anything special. I'd like to have everything shielded and grounded because it's a high gain circuit. I guess you're even supposed to ground the 9V?

>> Excel Spreadsheet (click) <<

mremic01 · August 26, 2012, 11:36:27 AM

Carbide bits are great, but I've actually had a lot better luck with them using them in a dremel. They kept breaking in a press, and the other side of the pcb material blew out even with a piece of cardboard under it. I usually get perfect holes drilling pcbs by hand with my dremel, as counter-intuitive as it sounds.

For your quick-setting epoxy glue, I'd recommend JB Weld, and not the quick setting stuff. It's no where near as strong as regular JB Weld, which you have to let cure for about 24 hours. I can usually snap off stand-offs that I've used kwik-set on, but not the regular kind.

I don't know why you'd need a CAD program. I just use Inkscape. It's free (as in beer).

I have some shielded wire, but I never use it. Even for really high-gain builds, I've never needed it. I think earlier Dr Boogie layouts were noisy, so people were using shielded wire to help with that until better layouts came along specifically to cut down on noise. But Gaussmarkov's and Madbean's layouts are decent enough that you probably won't notice a difference in noise.

Consider solid wire. It's easier to work with than stranded. I've never had a wire break, and it's just so much less trouble sticking through pcb holes. I don't use any bare connecting wire. I just reuse old wire scraps or component leads if I need them.

Hammond 1590BBs are little pricier than knock-offs, which are usually just as good. I got some 4-site 1590BBs that didn't have deep enough screw holes, so I needed to dremel off the screws, but the 1590BBs that Tayda sells are very nice.

You could save a lot of money if you looked at places like Tayda and Futurlec instead of Mouser for a lot of parts. Since Tayda came along, I almost never need to place orders with Mouser, and they're so much cheaper.

J0K3RX · August 26, 2012, 02:07:08 PM

A lot has to do with personal preference but a lot is also common sense and learn as you go kinda thing and what works best for you... You have gotten pretty good advice here and you seem pretty smart so you should do well on your first run... Number 1, you came here to this forum and that was a good decision as there are many smart brains that hang out here that will gladly help you if you need it!

Number 2 you seem very organized (which I am not)

You might consider getting some of your parts here, it's the US state side version of Tayda and they ship for free and you get the stuff in 3 days 4 tops.... I get my pots, trimmers, switches, foot switches, caps and other bulk stuff here. They don't have everything but a good majority.. I like the pots because they are alpha and they have the plastic dust covers on them...

http://www.thaishine.com/servlet/StoreFront

Everybody has their own way of etching boards... I use a plain old clothes iron, laser printer, a glass bowl, ferric chloride, glossy photo paper (cheap Walgreens brand), rubber surgical gloves (Walgreens again), and dish sponge... The sponge method is the best for me, saves a lot of ferric chloride and very fast.

Drilling for me is the biggest trouble so try a dremel, a press, hand drill etc.. whatever works for you.

I am going to start doing SMD/SMT as soon as I can get my resistors and caps that I ordered. I already have 1000 plus surface mount J201's and a bunch of other transistors. I will still do through hole for the obvious parts that need to be through hole but all the rest will be surface mount. I have worked with SMT for years doing fine pitch rework, infrared, hot air and the trusty old hand iron... So, I am very comfortable with it but wouldn't recommend it to people just starting! I don't get why it gets such a bad rap? Smaller circuits, way less drilling if any at all, no lead clipping, takes up less space to store, cheap, and I can throw down 5 resistors and solder them up for the time it takes me to do one through hole resistor.... I guess if you have bad eye site and a shaky hand it wouldn't be so much fun

But that's what works for me..

Here is a tip: If you have any old PC's laying around the audio cable that goes from the CDROM/DVDROM to the sound board/mother board is a shielded cable... A lot of times you will find shielded cables inside old VCR's,TV's, Boom Boxes, stereo equipment... plus a lot of other good stuff too! I'm a pack rat

Damn... what's everybody using JB Weld for? I use my TIG welder

Seriously, all joking aside, why the JB Weld?

mremic01 · August 26, 2012, 03:37:59 PM

I used hexagonal standoffs for the pcb and JB Weld them to the enclosure. I don't trust those 3M adhesive backed standoffs. That stuff seems like it would dry out in a year or two. I'm also amazed that so many people stick their pcbs on the backs of pots. Not only does that seem a lot less reliable to me, but I can't solder to the pots with the pcb in the way, and I can't get a nice short run of wire without keeping them too close together to be able to work in there.

Anyway, regular JB Weld is fantastic, but Small Bear sells the Kwik kind that works and cures faster, but can pop off if you're not careful. I just get mine from Amazon.

therockdemon · August 26, 2012, 05:26:44 PM

mremic01, I'm gonna save $2.28 on the aluminum boxes from Tayda (thanks), but I'm doubling all the onboard pcb components on the demo (Tweak-O) pedal so I can play a little without fear... and the price balances! I'll also place an order for that JB Weld epoxy (NON quick set). I'm not really sure how to shop for this solid wire as far as diameter and a cost-effective amount to buy without being overwhelmed with way more than I'm going to need. Do you mind linking me to some good solid copper wire for my needs, please?

Jim, I didn't have much luck checking out Thai Shine for pots, but I do plan to get my 3PDT switches from there (I need 3, so I guess I'm buying 4, though I'm sure I'll find use for 'em). Looking over my spreadsheet, is there anything in particular you would change? However, I'm going with the Walgreens photo paper, gloves, and dish sponge as you recommended. I'm also going to use the carbide bits on the Dremel since I've done a lot of work with the Dremel before and I can work from that experience.

If either of you guys want to give me links to specific things I should change instead of what's in the spreadsheet, I'd like to know! I don't really want to re-shop the Caps, Resistors, Diodes, and Transistors since that was time-consuming and difficult to find precisely the right parts at good quality. For everything else, I'm all ears!!! I'd like to place this order tonight around midnight, EST, but I'll back off another day if more planning is still needed.

Lastly, here's a reference for wiring the outboard. This should work on all pedals!
http://gaussmarkov.net/wordpress/thoughts/wiring-up-a-1590b/

What trimpots would you recommend? Here's 3 different price ranges. I pretty much expect all pots to be expensive, so I'm leaning toward the 3rd link at $0.83 apiece.
Through Hole 100K 6MM 20% tolerance
Through Hole 100Kohms 10mm 20% tolerance
Through Hole 1/4"SQ 100KOHMS 10% tolerance

Off topic.......
Here are some pictures of a previous guitar mod project of mine. I added a green killswitch pushbutton to my guitar. I also added a switch to go between 9V and 18V of DC power for the pickup preamps (the guitar comes stock with 9V hard wired and no switch). This involved "tunneling" some extra room into the instrument to make room for the extra battery, the extra switch, and the killswitch pushbutton. It was fun! I did this about 2 years ago and it's the first thing I've ever done involving electrical wiring and soldering.

Square One (click)
Planning 1 (click)
Planning 2 (click)
All Drilled!! (click)
Finished 1 (click)
Finished 2 (click)

J0K3RX · August 26, 2012, 06:14:08 PM

http://www.thaishine.com/servlet/the-1255/5-x-100K-OHM/Detail

I like Bourns if I can get my hands on them... but I will use pretty much any of them. Once I get them biased I remove them, measure them with the DMM and put in a fixed resistor or resistors in series of the same value.

I only leave them in if I think I am going to be running the pedal with 12v to 18v

Nice V!

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Jake's Dr. Boogey build