fuzz faeces :o

[deadastronaut]

hi guys , got a fuzz face on breadboard at the mo, using 5088's.....works great as a doomy dark riff machine too..as well as trumpety off bias stuff...

i settled on 2 input caps, switching between 10nf, and the standard 2.2uf....for bright and dark..

i got rid of the fuzz 1k pot control completely...so its full gaiin on all the time....(as its pretty much useless imo.)  (Q2 Emitter-22uf and 1k resistor-ground)

i also have a 10k trim on Q2, for mad bias trumpety stuff.....(which i really like too)

anyway....as i like a pedal to have more than one purpose because i'm a greedy little piggy and am  curious...

3 questions really.

1: when biasing Q2 10k trim for trumpety sounds the volume goes way high compared to biased fuzz...how can i even that out?...if its possible..ive tried several things to no avail...

2: what can i do to make it clean up with a better/fuller tone when low on guitar volume, as it seems to go thinner the less volume....

3: anyone made a decent distortion from a typical fuzz face circuit..?...(so its distortion and fuzz)   

4: should i just fuzz off.

cheers rob.

[deadastronaut]

i'll fuzz off then....

btw added a fet to the input, 2.2k/2.2uf off source to ground.........

sustains much more than standard ...tweak tweak...

[joegagan]

there are many designs that split the biasing of Q2 into two resistors, sometimes with taps off at the intersection. the tone control of tonebender mk3 is like this. gus s. also does the split Rs for bias as well.

it will be a bit of a balancing act, but by taking the signal at the split of two Rs, that will be your louder output. play around with trims til you like the balance.

[Quackzed]

input cap blend pot can add alot of flexibility. distorted sounds ive gotten with smaller input cap and more compressed sounding bias on q2... also helps to get the gain full up.
like if theres a spot where as you roll up the guitar vol the bass content will come flooding in , a smaller in cap can be tailored to let just enough
bass in so that it rides in between the line of too thin and FUUZZ where the bass starts to fuzz it out...
also you can put in a trimmer before the input cap set like a variable resistor to adjust the max input gain, and be able to run your guit vol full up then adjust this trimmer to where its not bassing out... i think its a mike fuller mod, input gain pot...

[Quackzed]

here we go. 
actually this looks pretty similar to the setup you have now, plus the mentioned suggestions.
i did build an easyface and liked it alot for its 'distortion' type character when set just so...

[artifus]

http://web.archive.org/web/20050513200126/www.geocities.com/tpe123/folkurban/fuzz/fuzzyfaces.html

http://www.home-wrecker.com/multiface.html

http://www.geofex.com/article_folders/fuzzface/fffram.htm

[deadastronaut]

cheers guys...i'll try those ideas  out..

@joe:  yeah i see,  that makes sense on the ''splitting''.... ..i'll give that a whirl.. .cheers man!.

back later...

[LucifersTrip]

1: when biasing Q2 10k trim for trumpety sounds the volume goes way high compared to biased fuzz...how can i even that out?.

lower the 470

2: what can i do to make it clean up with a better/fuller tone when low on guitar volume, as it seems to go thinner the less volume....

don't use insanely high gain transistors...or make ge version

3: anyone made a decent distortion from a typical fuzz face circuit..?...(so its distortion and fuzz)   

it actually can sound like a decent distortion with the fuzz rolled back a bit...

[deadastronaut]

been busy...but this is what i have so far..i split the Q2 as suggested by joe...cheers man...sort of trumpety synth fuzz and fuzz....with hi/lo input caps..

i need to sort the front end out still to get a nice volly control.....its pretty good!....more tinkering to do though..




edit: i can leave the 10k on all the time, and just switch the 1k....cool.

[rutabaga bob]

The usual question: got any soundclips?   Larry

[pinkjimiphoton]

rob,

try a 2n2222 in q1, and the mosfet version of the 2n2222 in q2. that's the basis of my sterno face, works great...can go from overdrive to full on fuzz.

when you set your bias, normally i'd say put the volume and gain knobs both half way up. there's a sweet spot, where your volume control on your guitar will sweep from cleanish (sounds more clean on a strat neck pickup, should sound very "hendrixy" when right) to scream. if there's an abrupt change,  give it a little more juice with the 10k trimmer. once you're right, you can get all kinds of sounds, from clean to scream and all points in between with just your volume knob.

the mosfet in q2 really makes a huge difference tonally...lets you take it beyond merely fuzz.

of course, that's IF you made an npn variant, of course... will up a SPT with the sterno face a little later so ya can see what i'm talking about.

also...you MAY find it sounds better with the 1k fuzz pot just slightly below full...warmer, more dynamic.

last suggestion, go with 100k for volume rather than 500k/470k....seems to give a better volume sweep, and brings it slightly above unity gain, as usually fuzzface are slightly below unity when pegged.

hope that helps bro...

[LucifersTrip]

last suggestion, go with 100k for volume rather than 500k/470k....seems to give a better volume sweep, and brings it slightly above unity gain, as usually fuzzface are slightly below unity when pegged.

there's some good suggestions in there, but about that, ??. All my FF's are easily above unity and a 100K, if anything should make in quieter...and make it more trebly/reduce bass

try an experiment...put a 500K pot across the 500K volume pot (250K), then slowly turn it down. near then end, you'll have very low volume and total treble

similar principal here with this cheapo tone control:
http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/schematics/ashfuzzschem.gif

you have an 11.8K across the vol pot and as you turn down you get more treble...the 1.8K cutoff is there because the volume would be too low

[deadastronaut]

@larry, not at the mo...i'm also going to try an 'earthscum'' lowaht filter added to it for c.ocked wah sustainy stuff, should sound pretty sick on the 'brassy syn ''  setting...faux synth stuff..

@jimi:  cool suggetions man, i don't have a mosfet 2n2222 though, i'll try some other trannies and see how i get on,  i got rid off the fuzz 1k pot as it did nothing really imo..

i just wanted full on grit anyway but with control on guitar.. but i'll try those suggestions for a better volly control , cheers man.


@lucifer: i'll try that out cheers.


back later!..


EDIT: just realized i have some 2n7000's mosfets..i'll try one of those...cheers.

edit 2:  tried the 2n7000 sounds great, but then i lose what i was after in the first place!...but does sound good!..

anyway back to my original schemo above and being an old stoner hippy, here's a clip of the syn brassy tone..not to everyones taste i know , but i like its steve hillagey'ness weird sound...

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7464107/faecesfuzz1.mp3

[pinkjimiphoton]

last suggestion, go with 100k for volume rather than 500k/470k....seems to give a better volume sweep, and brings it slightly above unity gain, as usually fuzzface are slightly below unity when pegged.

there's some good suggestions in there, but about that, ??. All my FF's are easily above unity and a 100K, if anything should make in quieter...and make it more trebly/reduce bass

try an experiment...put a 500K pot across the 500K volume pot (250K), then slowly turn it down. near then end, you'll have very low volume and total treble

similar principal here with this cheapo tone control:
http://fuzzcentral.ssguitar.com/schematics/ashfuzzschem.gif

you have an 11.8K across the vol pot and as you turn down you get more treble...the 1.8K cutoff is there because the volume would be too low

hi lu,
i'll try that, but so far, 100k seems to work best for me. @500k, it doesn't seem to get louder, but does up the mudd quite a bit. i don't think any of my fuzzface variants ended up with 500k, and it all started from a friend complaining his FF wasn't loud enough...tried going to 1M, didn't help...250k seemed better, 100 better still.

what i've found with FF's is it really depends on how the amp is set as to whether it hits unity, or just below.

to MY ear, i set gain by the "percussive" part of the attack...if the "thump/whamp" of the bass part of the signal stays the same when on as bypassed, that's what i call unity.
they all SOUND louder when on...but to me, that's more from the compression/distortion psychoactively affecting my ears sounding loud than being loud.

i learned long ago to set my gain structures up like that...i found if the percussive part is the same volume, when i kick in a fuzz or distorto-matic variant, i don't lose volume, but if i set it where it 
"sounds louder" it's often not, and tends to be way less dynamic in live use. to me, if i can't use it on stage, it ain't worth it generally (i prefer to have things louder onstage, and be able to turn it down than to be struggling for volume) but i make an exception with the FF cuz of the tone.
if you go by that percussive quality (like, mute your strings and chuka-chuka on 'em, with the effect off and on...then the sustained part of the tone doesn't get to fool your ears) a fuzz face is just below unity pegged.

of course, biasing makes a difference, too.. some transistors sound better with a higher voltage than others, some need to be starved a little bit to get 'em to sing,...there's definitely a "sweet spot" where they all seem the best.

anyways...  thanks for the advice...i know nada about the technical stuff, i just tinker around raising/lowering values til it sounds good.

that said... rob,
try this trick too...try paralleling a mosfet in q2 with a regular bipolar....connect s to e, g to b and d to c...you may need to mess with the bias a little, but you may like the resulting distortion.

peace!

[Quackzed]

that thing sounds cool. most of the gatey / velcro type fuzzes ive tried were pretty bass heavy, but that gating is pretty smooth and synthy without all the low end...

[deadastronaut]

cheers gil..

yeah i'm after something similar to an old steve hillage type of sound..fuzzy-synthyness...


@lucifer: i tried the 500k, but like jimi said it mudded it up more...100k seemed to suit it better,

Q2 -2n7000  was quite good actually....better for another fuzz though i think..

back to the schemo..

[rutabaga bob]

Rob: LOVE the sound clip!

[deadastronaut]

cheers larry...

a bit more tinkering to do yet though!...

[LucifersTrip]

@lucifer: i tried the 500k, but like jimi said it mudded it up more...100k seemed to suit it better,

I suggested using a 500K pot across the existing 500K (so you start with a 250K), then slowly turn it down till you like it best....or use a 1M pot so you can start at 333K.  you'll notice there's a much smaller decrease in volume in the beginning, but when you bring the vol pot down under 100K, there's be a quick vol dropoff and treble increase/bass decrease  

jimi's perceived volume increase with the 100K is most likely due to the fact that treble cuts thru the mix better.

edit:
and remember, since you're using so much higher hfe transistors than what is "typical" for a FF, it's no surprise you'd want to cut some of the mushy-ness.

[pinkjimiphoton]

hey bro,

it's not the treble making it louder...

i'm talking the percussive "thump" part is louder. there's definitely more treble, but with less bass, comes more volume.
these things got some "knock" to 'em.

just goin' by my ears...admittedly a pretty wasted resource!

didja see the latest SPT? the thing's definitely loud..