Cry Baby Wah Wah Troubleshoot Please Help!

[The Rocket From The Tombs]

I built a Gcb-95 Crybaby Wah-Wah.

Schematic: http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=351

Original Layout, Labeled parts and Re-drawn layout: http://www.use.com/3248c0fefaff6ff65f86
(I changed the shape of the layout to fit the circuit board I had)

List Of Components I purchased: http://www.use.com/126b4ce71bd4354fa197

I used a yellow fasel Inductor and this pot: http://tinyurl.com/8t8baep
These Jacks: http://www.mammothelectronics.com/4SJK103S-p/610-1005.htm
This DPDT Switch: http://www.mammothelectronics.com/4SFS2PDT-LS-p/800-1000.htm

I followed this wiring Diagram: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1iuVgGmlpc @ 3:23
I also made the pedal true Bypass.

Pictures of the actual pedal: (Sorry, the wiring is a mess)
http://www.use.com/3780d691312633c0721a

I took the battery clip from this pedal: http://www.use.com/aff18fdd862e51507d2e

I did some of the mods listed on this page: http://sixstringbliss.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=pedal&action=print&thread=3026
Gain-  330ohm
Q- 100k
Mids- 2.2k
Input level- 47k
Sweep Range-  .01 5% Orange Drop

The pedal isn't showing any signs of working. I plug it in and it's like a paperweight, no buzzing, nothing.
*One of the pads did peel off, so I jumpered it with a bit of wire. Also, the resistors all range in size but I was told that wouldn't matter.

*VOLTAGES*
Battery- 9.33
Battery clip- 0.01
Voltage at the circuit board end of the red battery lead- 9.33
Voltage at the circuit board end of the black battery lead- 0.00 nothing
With my negative probe on the outter right jack pin (the one closest to the side) and the only area on the board I'm getting any reading is the red battery lead end. Could this be where my problem lies or am I not putting the probes in the right place?

[Satchmoedie]

Are you sure all the electrolytic caps are in the right way? Also the transistors must be in the right way too. Make sure if you changed from say a 3904 to a BC108 you have the pins in the right places. I have a gizmo that tells me EBC or GSD in what ever order I plug a transistor into it, so I can quit looking up pin outs on those. I have had a few dead wahs come through the shop. Usually the wires to the pot, jacks and battery were ripped out and put back wrong, or the SPDT switch is bad. It is likely something dumb like a backwards cap, or a Q is in wrong. Make sure any part you changed has the same pin out as far as any transistors, and the caps are in correctly.

[Satchmoedie]

Oh yeah, did you cut the trace  to the signal bypass buffer out? It should work in wah mode but not bypass that way. This is one effect I usually do not do true bypass with. The only reason I guess is mine are all ancient Thomas USA Vox, or UK Vox and other stuff that is 40+ years old. If  I am going to use one I have the 40 year old caps, and a box of toroidal 500 mHy coils, but I use metal film resistors. I also have a bunch of old BC 108 Philips transistors, and 3 or 4 other styles used in the 1960s-1970s. Out of the various non 3904 transistors that will work there are 3 pin outs, so two are different.   Reread the mod page you posted again. Thank God I never have these problems. JK Make sure no more track is broken, and it IS broken where you need it to be on the buffer C, and R. The old ones resemble the new ones a little, but no 9VDC input jack, metal transistors, and various inductors from TDK to Fasel. Remove the 9VDC input circuit and they are 98% the same circuit.

[The Rocket From The Tombs]

Can a Cap or transistor put in the wrong way cause the entire pedal to be dead? Since I'm also not getting any readings when I try to measure for voltage. Could a bad resistor or diode cause the pedal to be "paper weight status" or would I still be getting a bit of sound if one of those was bad?

[The Rocket From The Tombs]

Alright, I re-wired the DPDT switch, according to the stinkfoot wiring diagram: http://stinkfoot.se/archives/546. The pedal still doesn't work but, now I'm getting some buzzing. Also, for some reason when I tap on the battery the amp picks it up and the same when I press the DPDT switch (I know it isn't the guitar's pickups doing so, because it does this even when the guitar is unplugged). The buzzing also gets louder when I move the battery+clip away from the circuit. Does anyone have any idea what could be wrong? I'm going to go try measuring the voltages again.

[pinkjimiphoton]

you're describing reversed electros or trannys.

build an audio probe...and start working your way thru the circuit.

i'm guessing at least one component may be inadvertantly reversed. i STILL do that sometimes. it happens.

keep at it, you'll figure it out.

if the battery case buzzes when you touch it, that's usually because a cap somewhere is backwards

[The Rocket From The Tombs]

Thanks man, I'll try that. Also, the pedal acts pretty much dead when it's in true bypass. When it isn't it makes a wehwehwehwehwehweh buzzing noise. Also, when I make the audio probe, would a crackling noise mean the same thing as a buzzing noise? Lastly should ground connections buzz, too?

[Ronan]

Start here:

Q1
C =
B =
E =

Q2
C=
B=
E=

[The Rocket From The Tombs]

I'm not getting any readings on my multimeter. I have it set to 20 DCV. I get a reading around 8.45 on the red battery lead, that just keeps increasing the longer I keep the probes on. Then, for the rest of the circuit I'm not getting anything...

[Ronan]

You need to plug a guitar lead into the input jack to connect the negative battery lead to the circuit.
Assuming you did that, you should get battery voltage at the PCB, on both sides of the 1K resistor connected to the red battery lead.

[The Rocket From The Tombs]

I don't have my pedal hooked up to disconnect power when the cable is inserted. I plan on wiring a switch, instead.

[pinkjimiphoton]

an increasing voltage would still seem to indicate a cap problem, the cap is charging.

can you post any pics or anything? something is mega wrong.

[pinkjimiphoton]

from the pictures, it looks like half the pcb is unpopulated. you can't just leave the buffer out without adding some jumpers at the least.

dumb question....do you have ground between the board and the input/output jacks?

is ground connected to the negative battery connection?

sorry, i can't see much in the pics that's too helpful..

[The Rocket From The Tombs]

In the stinkfoot true bypass tutorial, he said you don't need to jumper the buffer stage. Also, the reason there are some other pads with nothing in them is on the original wah, they just left those unpopulated, I assumed it was for a mod or if another path broke. So,  should I jumper the buffer stage? Unfortunately, I'm going to answer that with something even dumber. I'm not sure, I have The negative lead going in to the pad it's supposed to be in, then the other ground wire I did was solder a wire on the top right of the DPDT switch, going to the south hole vacated by the top left resistor. I'm pretty sure those are the only ground wires I soldered. If you need anymore I pictures I can take them. For example, I rewired the DPDT switch to match stinkfoot's diagram and not the video I posted above. I also tried reversing the electrolyte caps but, I still just got a lot of buzzing. Could the problem be the types of components I'm using? I posted a list above, just in case.

[pinkjimiphoton]

In the stinkfoot true bypass tutorial, he said you don't need to jumper the buffer stage.

ummm, if there's no buffer stage, unless you put the wire from the input jack to where the output of the buffer would be, there's no way the signal can flow. you have an open circuit. did you connect the input jack to where the output of the buffer would have been?

Also, the reason there are some other pads with nothing in them is on the original wah, they just left those unpopulated, I assumed it was for a mod or if another path broke.

probably had input/output buffers. again, make sure if you didn't add those that you are  (in this case) taking your tip from the iinput  jack to   where the OUTPUT of the input buffer would have been,  and the output from the board to the switch to where the output of  the output buffer would have been. got me?

So,  should I jumper the buffer stage? Unfortunately, I'm going to answer that with something even dumber.

well, i dunno about dumber, we all make mistakes, and nobody learns anything when they get it right...you learn from mistakes...so take it easy on yourself.

I'm not sure, I have The negative lead going in to the pad it's supposed to be in, then the other ground wire I did was solder a wire on the top right of the DPDT switch, going to the south hole vacated by the top left resistor.

that really doesn't help me, but it sounds to me like you have no ground to your circuit. ALL grounds should be to the input jack sleeve connection, the one closest to the threaded part of the jack. a wire should jump from here to the other jack's ground, and  also to the board's ground pad.

(obviously, the teminal on the jacks farthest from the threads would be the "tip" or "hot" connection...not ground, but where the signal flows)

the negative from your battery or input jack or whatever should connect to the ring connection...the center connection on the input jack. you have three.

btw...the pic you show doesn't show very well, make sure you're wired to the right side of the jacks.. one side will have no connections made at all when you plug it in.


the negative should not in any case be connected to the footswitch if using a dpdt as you are.  a dpdt should have the 6 connections wired like this:

bottom two: jumpered.

middle two... left, tip from input jack, right, tip from output jack.

top two...left to input of pcb, right from output of pcb

you absolutely have the wiring buggered up. sounds to me like you combined a 3pdt style switch wiring with a grounded pcb input/led with a simpler dpdt setup.

I'm pretty sure those are the only ground wires I soldered. If you need anymore I pictures I can take them. For example, I rewired the DPDT switch to match stinkfoot's diagram and not the video I posted above. I also tried reversing the electrolyte caps but, I still just got a lot of buzzing. Could the problem be the types of components I'm using? I posted a list above, just in case.

pretty much it sounds to me like you have a wiring issue.

check the board, and make sure you clearly know which pad is the output, input, 9v + in, and ground. label them, so you don't make a mistake.

then wire it as i suggest above. if it still doesn't work, you have a problem with the population of the board, which is an entirely different problem.

right now, as you have described the wiring, you have the cct shorted to ground, or no actual ground connection...it's definitely wrong.

you can verify the wiring at least is right by wiring it as suggested... when you click the switch, your guitar signal will pass thru the pedal unaffected...that way you know your basic wiring is ok.

if you click it on, and get a signal, hooray, you got it licked...if you turn it on and get NO signal, well..then we know the problem is on the board,
and most likely it's cuz you're connecting into the wrong pads. you've made some modification,  and need to allow for that with your wiring.

keep us posted bro... onwards and upwards!

[killerkev]

The way you are describing things makes me wonder if you are testing correctly.  Like Ronan said above, Plug in a guitar jack into the input jack even if it is "not" wired that way..... Connect your negative lead from your multi meter to a known ground on the board and leave it there. Check that the circuit board is getting power by taking your positive lead from your MM and check the power trace on the board. You should have a voltage pretty close to the battery which I belive you stated was 9.3 v. Then you need to post the voltages on the two transistors as Ronan stated before. Below is the area the voltages should be:

Q1 C - 4.5
     B - 0.60
     E - 0.04
Q2 C - 8.0
     B - 3.9
     E - 3.4

If you have no voltage going to the trace then you have a wiring issue. If  you do have power on the power trace and your transistor voltages are not anywhere near what is above then you NEED to POST the TRANSISTOR VOLTAGES. All is speculation without this information....believe it!

[The Rocket From The Tombs]

YES! Finally, I'm getting voltages on the transistors. I'm not sure which lead is C,B or E, hopefully someone can clear that up for me. Also, the voltages change a bit with each test. Then, with a few of them, the voltage doesn't stay still it keeps decreasing. So, I'm assuming I either have them in the wrong way or the trannies are bad.
Q1
7.60
7.15
7.01


Q2
1.16
7.80
8.06

[pinkjimiphoton]

q2 looks to be backwards.

did you rewire the pedal like i suggested? does it pass signal now when the effect is bypassed?

[The Rocket From The Tombs]

Actually, I  wasn't really sure how to re-wire the pedal according to the directions you gave, Here's a diagram I made of how the pedal's currently wired up, what would I need to change? I figured rather than taking another picture, the diagram would be easier to follow. If you'd like me to show it populated I can do that, too. http://www.use.com/0843740e1f1943333c9d

[pinkjimiphoton]

do it like this...this is the simplest way to do a true bypass with a double pole double pole switch.

where it says "from board" is probably the output of the pot...wherever it comes out, that's your output...and wherever it goes in, your input.

when the effect is bypassed, it goes in one jack, thru the jumper, and out the other one.

when the effect is on, it goes from the input jack into the board, out of the board to the output jack.

check it out: