BLACK FOREST High Gain Preamp - Based on the Bogner Uberschall

[J0K3RX]

Thanks for the layouts, more stuff to add to the list of things to build.

So, are the engl3 and black forest preamps, ie should i plug the output into the effects return of my amp?

Thanks!

Yes, or direct for recording with cab simulation...

[deafbutpicky]

You're a busy guy J0K3RX!

As you're a specialist in those heavy things I'd really like to know your opinion about this:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=100407.0

[J0K3RX]

You're a busy guy J0K3RX!

As you're a specialist in those heavy things I'd really like to know your opinion about this:

http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=100407.0

Has a nice industrial fuzz kinda sound! Heavy for sure... Not really my cup-o-tea but does sound good!

[J0K3RX]

J0K3RX , you're like Santa, but a lot after the Christmas ;p
Anyway, I'd like to suggest two things:
1. Consider creating a new topic. We're no longer talking about Black Forest, but about a whole collection of your stuff, so..
2. The design in your PDF file is in a really low resolution.. While it shouldn't f*ck up things, it's still always better to have the pcb design as best as it can be. Consider using PDF creator and printing the design to a file with that software. This way the design will be in much, much better quality, and then you can use Inkscape, or other kind of software to add the rest of the stuff, like title, etc.

Good idea about your 1 - Maybe we could start A "Everything High Gain and Related" amps, preamps, distortions, overdrives etc.. in the member section? The reason I say that is because I hate when these post get rolled to the bottom of the pile mixed in with all the other stuff. I post something and one day later it's 3 pages back etc.. So that is why I have been posting under the Black Forest thread so it's all in one place. Confusing maybe but still a one stop shop and I don't have to do forum search to find an older post.

Number 2  - You are right but I printed it and the quality is not super high res but it is plenty good enough for a perfect etch! I do use pdf creator and I am using Sprint but I can't figure out how to export just the layout/traces? I can export but have to export in color and then photo shop it and convert it to negative image then set the threshold so the traces are black and the background is white... Stupid I know but that's the only way I could figure it out... Still the image is fine and you can't see any quality issues in the printout.

[meffcio]

Good idea about your 1 - Maybe we could start A "Everything High Gain and Related" amps, preamps, distortions, overdrives etc.. in the member section? The reason I say that is because I hate when these post get rolled to the bottom of the pile mixed in with all the other stuff. I post something and one day later it's 3 pages back etc.. So that is why I have been posting under the Black Forest thread so it's all in one place. Confusing maybe but still a one stop shop and I don't have to do forum search to find an older post.

Yes, that's the thing I really, really dislike about the forum. Most of the stuff goes to 'Building your own stompbox', and finding anything there is a pain in the a**. This subforum should be at least divided into something like 'Official designs', 'Amateur/semi-pro designs', 'Members' designs' and 'Other'. But for now you could just make a topic like 'J0K3RX's high gain stuff' or so.

Number 2  - You are right but I printed it and the quality is not super high res but it is plenty good enough for a perfect etch! I do use pdf creator and I am using Sprint but I can't figure out how to export just the layout/traces? I can export but have to export in color and then photo shop it and convert it to negative image then set the threshold so the traces are black and the background is white... Stupid I know but that's the only way I could figure it out... Still the image is fine and you can't see any quality issues in the printout.

File>Printer setup, and there you choose PDFCreator.
Then File>Print, and there in upper left corner you have a small area called 'Layer'. There you choose what do you want to print, and by clicking the coloured squares next to the layers, you can choose what colour you want those layers to be!  From there it's simple. You can manually move the design on the printing area, or you can center it with the upper 'Centre' button. 'Tile' gives you the ability to print a whole batch on one sheet at once. Try to experiment with all stuff in that window, as you may find something more useful.

[J0K3RX]

Good idea about your 1 - Maybe we could start A "Everything High Gain and Related" amps, preamps, distortions, overdrives etc.. in the member section? The reason I say that is because I hate when these post get rolled to the bottom of the pile mixed in with all the other stuff. I post something and one day later it's 3 pages back etc.. So that is why I have been posting under the Black Forest thread so it's all in one place. Confusing maybe but still a one stop shop and I don't have to do forum search to find an older post.

Yes, that's the thing I really, really dislike about the forum. Most of the stuff goes to 'Building your own stompbox', and finding anything there is a pain in the a**. This subforum should be at least divided into something like 'Official designs', 'Amateur/semi-pro designs', 'Members' designs' and 'Other'. But for now you could just make a topic like 'J0K3RX's high gain stuff' or so.

Number 2  - You are right but I printed it and the quality is not super high res but it is plenty good enough for a perfect etch! I do use pdf creator and I am using Sprint but I can't figure out how to export just the layout/traces? I can export but have to export in color and then photo shop it and convert it to negative image then set the threshold so the traces are black and the background is white... Stupid I know but that's the only way I could figure it out... Still the image is fine and you can't see any quality issues in the printout.

File>Printer setup, and there you choose PDFCreator.
Then File>Print, and there in upper left corner you have a small area called 'Layer'. There you choose what do you want to print, and by clicking the coloured squares next to the layers, you can choose what colour you want those layers to be!  From there it's simple. You can manually move the design on the printing area, or you can center it with the upper 'Centre' button. 'Tile' gives you the ability to print a whole batch on one sheet at once. Try to experiment with all stuff in that window, as you may find something more useful.

meffcio,

I love you man!!!  I can't believe I never saw that!? Feeling kinda stupid but happy at the same time

How's this look, better?
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11178619/New%20Preamps/E3%20Transfer.pdf

[meffcio]

meffcio,

I love you man!!!  I can't believe I never saw that!? Feeling kinda stupid but happy at the same time

How's this look, better?
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11178619/New%20Preamps/E3%20Transfer.pdf

Hah, I'm glad I could help you. Now it's perfect.

[chromesphere]

This project has sparked my interest.  
I took the liberty of making a BOM.  Hopefully it will be of use to you, and HOPEFULLY, i didnt stuff it up!  Havent read through the thread, dont know if anything has changed since the parts layout on page 13...hell, dont even know if its still called black forrest or engl 3?

Let me know if you spot any errors.

Anyway, here it is:



Paul

[J0K3RX]

Thanks Paul (chromesphere) of course it is useful! And no, the Engl 3 is not the Black Forest... I have some ideas for the Black Forest after going over these Russian designs but I am not going to get back into that just yet.

On the Engl, it would probably be best to use 2N5458 or 2N5459 for the V5 and V6 or as we call them Q5 and Q6... J201's will work fine but the 2N5458's and 2N5459's are a lot cheaper and are better suited for the buffers. So, it would be 1 - J201/ 3 - 2N7000 / 2 - 2n5458/59.  For the mosfets, 2N7000 and BS170 can be used, there may be others? I prefer the 2N7000's myself and they are cheap as dirt and they produce a lot of wonderful gain! That is good news in my book!

Things to note:
The Russian transistors can be substituted with the following to the best of my knowledge. Are they exact? probably not, but they are close enough and will work according to articles I have read by Victor Kampf from AMT Electronics. They are matched as follows:

These are the common values used in these preamps;
KP303A = J201, BF245A
KP303B = 2N5457, BF245B
KP303E = 2N5458, 2N5459, BF245C
KP303X = J201
KPC104A = J201 x 2

Ok, here's the deal... I have a sh!t ton of these Russian preamps, distortions pedals, or whatever you want to call them and I have redesigned all of them to work with the easily obtainable parts listed above. Note: I give the original designers of these circuits FULL credit for these awesome designs and in no way do I deserve any credit for these things except for the mindless re-routing of traces and time spent...

That being said, how do we want to do this?
A. Do we want to keep posting here under this post?
B. Can we create a main topic with sub-topics and do them separately for each one?
C. Just create new topics for each one in the main user area?
D. Just create new topics for each one in the member area?
E. Don't give a sh!t...  

Personally, I would like to do them under the member forum in some way.  Anybody wanna have some adventures in high gain madness???

[chromesphere]

Cool Jok3rx updated the transistors, hopefully should be good now. Let me know if anything else needs tweaking!
Paul

[bluesdevil]

I just now have checked in to see about building the Black Forest after a bit of a break, but now I see a new monster is born: The Engl 3 !!
Which to to build? I'm thinking hard on the ENGL 3.... how does it compare to Black Forest?

Also, I think it's great you are coming up with a bunch of high gainers to dethrone the Dr. Boogey as top distortion dog.

It would be cool to have a sub forum for super high gainers with separate threads for each of your new projects. If not possible, maybe just have separate threads in main forum for each project and then have links at the top of each thread to each other to keep 'em connected.

[J0K3RX]

bluesdevil,

Thanks for the input!! Both pedals are different but brutal just the same...

markmcconachie did a sound demo of the BF a page back or so... sounded real good! Was hoping to hear his back to back demos of the Dr.Boogie and BF etc... Maybe he will still do it?

Here is a real crappy demo of the Engl 3... This thing has mega gain by the way!

Dry with nothing but cabsim
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11178619/E3_test_dry_as_a_mummys_dick.mp3

Some delay for depth
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11178619/E3_test.mp3

[bluesdevil]

Hey Jim - Thanks for the ENGL 3 clips!! Sounds brutal, but quiet.... perfect!
I might go ahead and try to cobble up parts from the BOM and see if I can get it done without having to order anything.
I'll revisit the Black Forest info in the meantime to see what's been updated. Rock on!!

[bluesdevil]

Noticed 470pf listed twice on the BOM for a total of 5 pieces. I think all you need is three for the circuit, if my eyeballs aren't failing me.
Thanks for all the hard work getting this all together!! I ended up having to order up a few parts, but I should have everything ready to go in a week or so.

[chromesphere]

Thanks Blues, ill check / fix the BOM tomorrow at work.
Cheers!
Paul

[deadastronaut]

A. Do we want to keep posting here under this post?   
B. Can we create a main topic with sub-topics and do them separately for each one?
C. Just create new topics for each one in the main user area?
D. Just create new topics for each one in the member area?  YES!!!!..
E. Don't give a sh!t...   ...sometimes

ok my vote: D

go with '' JOKE3RX HI GAINERS ( ENGL3)  \m/   \m/  '' 

            '' JOKE3RX HI GAINERS ( BF)  \m/   \m/  '' 

             ''JOKE3RX HI GAINERS ( KRANK)  \m/   \m/  '' 

etc etc...

[Michael80]

Hi guys!
First of all  J0K3RX thank you so much for this amazing pedal.I'm talking about the black forest which i'm trying to finish.
I used it in front of my amp (not the best way..i know) and this pedal comes to life when the volume pass 12 o'Clock or even better at 1 o'Clock.Compared to bypass  it's VERY loud!
When the volume is lower than the halfway it's sounds muddy and fuzzy.Any thoughts?
You wrote that you removed one resistor 470k from the volume pot as it was more quiter.Does this has something to do?
thanks!

[deafbutpicky]

Hi J0K3RX,
first of all thanks for comment.

On the seperate threads idea:
A main topic 'highgainer' with subs for each pedal would be the easiest way not to get lost
in the (black)forest of schematics. The main topic would be useful for comparison between them
and stuff related.

[J0K3RX]

Hi J0K3RX,
first of all thanks for comment.

On the seperate threads idea:
A main topic 'highgainer' with subs for each pedal would be the easiest way not to get lost
in the (black)forest of schematics. The main topic would be useful for comparison between them
and stuff related.

Totally agree! But, not up to me...

[markmcconachie]

markmcconachie did a sound demo of the BF a page back or so... sounded real good! Was hoping to hear his back to back demos of the Dr.Boogie and BF etc... Maybe he will still do it?

I will do it this weekend, it's hard to find time through the week right now...