BLACK FOREST High Gain Preamp - Based on the Bogner Uberschall

[J0K3RX]

Man, you gotta love Ola, he's the king of getting heavy tones out of just about any setup. As you know Jim, I am a fan of tube screamers and use one in all of my rigs. They just add the perfect amount of extra drive I need, so it sounds like a good plan to me. My Randall doesn't have TONS of gain, but with a TS in front and a PQ3 in the loop it's downright brutal! Add in the fact that I can blend a tiny bit of clean channel in over the red channel and it destroys small villages.
Ordering E3 parts now to finally get back into this thread. Thanks again for sharing!

I believe this is "THE ANSWER" to the humming noise! I have tried this and this does work 100% with the E3 and the BF! Just lower the gain on the preamp by changing the gain pot value or just dial it back and the humming magically goes away! Then, slap a tube screamer in front of it and the "Screamin Eagle" is born! Done!

[pakrat]

Ok, so the E3 layout and transfer from page 16 is the correct one to use without any changes, correct?

[J0K3RX]

Ok, so the E3 layout and transfer from page 16 is the correct one to use without any changes, correct?

Check your email...

[JebemMajke]

Would you be so kind to share pcb layout with me as well?

[pakrat]

Many thanks Jim

[JebemMajke]

Thanks Jim 

[J0K3RX]

Man, you gotta love Ola, he's the king of getting heavy tones out of just about any setup. As you know Jim, I am a fan of tube screamers and use one in all of my rigs. They just add the perfect amount of extra drive I need, so it sounds like a good plan to me. My Randall doesn't have TONS of gain, but with a TS in front and a PQ3 in the loop it's downright brutal! Add in the fact that I can blend a tiny bit of clean channel in over the red channel and it destroys small villages.
Ordering E3 parts now to finally get back into this thread. Thanks again for sharing!

Got any really compact/small TS808 layouts? I know the Son of Screamer and the Son of Clay Jones are small but they are missing the buffers and that may be key in the way they sound with these preamps...? Any good mods that would play nicely with these preamps? If you don't have a small layout I can make one, just thought I would ask in case... The different clipping options are not really that important to me since I don't really use it in the traditional sense...  

And by using the TS with the level maxed and the gain all the way off it's really acting as a front end booster of sorts, maybe a treble booster or something? Anybody know what would create this effect without going through the trouble of making a full on tube screamer? I have tried boosters like the SHO and the likes but they don't produce the same effect, at all! They are good for boosting the signal after the preamp but sound like a mess in front!

[J0K3RX]

The Brian May treble booster sim in GR5 does almost the same effect as the TS level knob.. I never really tried one in real life, only simulated pedal on simulated amps... Sounded very good and totally as good as the TS level drive effect!

[euronymous0001]

How about this one:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=1056.400

[J0K3RX]

How about this one:
http://www.diystompboxes.com/smfforum/index.php?topic=1056.400

Might try it..?

I tried the Brian May treble boost, threw it together on perf board in about 10 minutes... WOW!!! This thing is shmokin! I don't know if it will replace the TS but definitely a runner up! Makes leads a breeze and at the same time gives a tight bottom end! VERY COOL circuit!!! Highly recommend!

Edit: Crap man, I think the TS has met it's match!! The more I play with this the more I LOVE IT!!! Best 15 parts I have EVER thrown together!!!!!!!!!!

Used this - http://www.sabrotone.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/BrianMayTrebleBooster.gif

And no hum....  

[fretzburner]

Jok3rx, with this treble booster no hum even using 2SK117 or J201 at V1 and full gain setting?

[JebemMajke]

As far as boosters into high gain distortions goes i love using voodoo labs overdrive ( mine has tl082 inside ). Tight lows good mids and singing highs. My guitar is in standard C/drop A#. I can;t wait to try it with E3.

[scuzzphut]

Maybe try something teensy like an LPB or SHO.
If it works, it would be pimps to squeeze it into the enclosure and add a knob.

(ps - pimps means "very easy" in the West of Scotland)

[J0K3RX]

Tried SHO and the likes and don't like it.. at all! Doesn't have the same effect as the TS level drive.

I really like the treble booster but the TS still wins, nuff said.

[euronymous0001]

i think that the gain of the booster in front of the E3 is of lesser importance than that of the frequencies it is boosting. since the TS has a midhump, fullrange booster are not what is needed for this application. the "beginner" project, a.k.a. gus npn boost is good for this job. treble boosters is also good since it removes the low frequencies which will make the sound muddy

[jymaze]

The SHO boosts all frequencies, so it is useful for clean or crunchy sounds, for high gain it becomes too muddy.

When you want high gain you want a mid boost (TS) or treble boost (which sometimes ends up being not much more than a mid-boost since a lot of the distortion harmonics of the treble frequencies are too high for the speaker to reproduce at significant level).

Why does the mid-boost of the TS make high-gain so good? Here is how I understand it:

1) Basically you want the bass to distort not too much since the harmonics will all be heard. Too much disto and it gets muddy, you want to keep it tight, so not much boost possible.

2) The mids can distort quite a bit and a good part of the harmonics will fall out of the freq band of the speaker anyway. Plenty of leeway for a boost available here, but too much mid sounds nasally so you will have to get rid of some in the post-disto eq.

3)The trebles can distort, so there is leeway for a boost, but anyway most of the harmonics will fall out of the freq band of the speaker except low harmonics which give just enough meat to the high register. So boost is ok, but can sounds shrill if no eq/natural speaker roll-off/cab sim later in the chain.

So you put a TS to have a mid-boost as pre-eq, put your distortion, then have a TMB tonestack with a mid-scoop to get rid of the excess of mid which can sound nasally and here you have it, a high-gain disto that sounds tight but not nasally or shrill.

[euronymous0001]

how about the demeter fat control?

[J0K3RX]

The treble booster has the tight edge boost effect like the tube screamer - But - It has a wind tunnel type sound in the background. You can get it to where the wind tunnel sound is gone but at that point it doesn't give enough boost or edge. So, back to the drawing board as far as boosters go... No worries, the tube screamer still kills it!! I suspect any good tube screamer variant will work very well!! I would say refer back to "Reply #598" at the bottom of page 30 for reference.... Easy to get side tracked with all of these circuits. 

[jymaze]

Still looking for the cause of your hum, even if it seems fine with a TS, it is still not satisfying.

So I thought about a possible ground loop within your pedal:

On your layout you have too many ground in/outs I think.

There should be only 2 to be optimal. One ground coming from the power supply, and one ground going to one of the jacks, then you connect the ground of one jack to the other one with a wire. It will exclude the metallic enclosure from forming a ground loop with the ground track on your PCB (there is still a ground loop unless you use insulated jacks, but it does not pass though the PCB at least). It would be also good to make a ground fill instead of a ground track.

Not sure that's the problem, but that is the only ground loop I see here, and it seems you did not have as many ground wires on some of your previous layouts and they did not hum.

Could it be it?

[J0K3RX]

Still looking for the cause of your hum, even if it seems fine with a TS, it is still not satisfying.

So I thought about a possible ground loop within your pedal:

On your layout you have too many ground in/outs I think.

There should be only 2 to be optimal. One ground coming from the power supply, and one ground going to one of the jacks, then you connect the ground of one jack to the other one with a wire. It will exclude the metallic enclosure from forming a ground loop with the ground track on your PCB (there is still a ground loop unless you use insulated jacks, but it does not pass though the PCB at least). It would be also good to make a ground fill instead of a ground track.

Not sure that's the problem, but that is the only ground loop I see here, and it seems you did not have as many ground wires on some of your previous layouts and they did not hum.

Could it be it?

You know, that is exactly what I thought (loop within the pedal) when people started saying it sounded like ground loop and I know there is nothing external that it could be in a loop with. So, I did just about exactly what you said and still got the hum. Now I have what I guess is a star ground... Only 2 connections to the board connecting in the same place, the rest of the ground connections are off-board to one connection and yes I do have insulated jacks... Also tried regular un-insulated jacks etc... hummin all the time. If I touch the trace side of the board around the gain pot connections the hum stops, also if I pick the pedal up and hold it up in the air with my head turned just a certain way and one foot slightly lifted the hum stops...

Kinda like this...



Sun spot activity perhaps? lol wtf?

Seriously, maybe it is a board design problem of some kind? Maybe a trace or component is routed over or under something causing cross talk/noise? Mybe the circuit is too compact and needs to be spread out more..? Thoughts?