Can't Get it Together!!!

[audiolife]

I've been really struggling with getting a finished product. Getting a circuit working is not an issue, but getting into an enclosure and into playable condition has been a fail every time for me.

I used to ground all to board, but that left an ungodly mess inside. I've searched and tried to assemble by putting the hardware in the enclosure and then putting int he board, which is a bit cleaner but still nothing works.

I read continuity through the jacks, the LED lights up, but nothing.

It's really hard to troubleshoot once it's in, and I always have problems once it's in, leading me to tear it down and start over.

It's kind of getting ridiculous, I don't want to stop trying but I'm spending hours for nothing here.

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

[deadastronaut]

what is it?......

if its working when out of the box, then it should be ok in it..........

are you using a metal dc socket?....that is a common mistake......

heres a tried n tested wiring diagram for your  3pdt switch..


http://gaussmarkov.net/wordpress/thoughts/wiring-up-a-1590b/

[JRB]

Your not alone on the annoyance that is called boxing it up here's how I do it.

-Breadboard the circuit and tweak it till you like the sound of it.
- Build the circuit and solder offboard wires on it, basically you got five wires going of it, input, output, 0V, +9V(or what ever it runs on) and the LED wire with the resistor.
- Hook the circuit back on to the bread board to test if it works.
- If it doesn't work debug and repeat until it works.
- Box it up.
What I usually do is hook up the +9V directly to the DC jack(I don't use a battery).
Wire up the switch and connect the off going wires to the board, jacks and LED to it.
Solder all the 0V connections to one central point, usually the input jack.

This gives a pretty easy to debug build cause all the debugging of the circuit has already been done outside of the box.

And one big tip is use different coloured wires, first build I did I used all black wires cause that was what i had laying around when every I need to change something in it its a horrible experience to go trough.

[nocentelli]

+1 to metal dc jacks as a common fault. I've found the best way to ensure it works first time inside the box is to drill the enclosure, place it on a flat surface, and load the off-board hardware (firstly the pots) into the face of the pedal i.e. inside out and backwards. You can cut the connecting leads to the pots to the appropriate length and solder them to the board. Next, wire the dc jack (washer-outside type is best) and then solder input and output leads, nice and long, to the board. Now check the circuit works. Next, wire the LED and transfer the wired-guts to the INSIDE of the pedal: I cut a piece of double-sided sticky-back foam to the rear of the board but DON'T remove the second non-sticky layer (we know the board works, and the foam comes off easily enough but will hold it firm). I place the board where it will eventually be mounted and lightly screw on the pot nuts. Next hook up the foot switch, in/out jacks to footswitch, LED wire to footswitch, and finally connect in/outs to/from board to the send/return of the footswitch. It should work. When you content it's up and running, simply remove the bottom strip and fimly affix the board to the enclosure. Note this method is easiest if the knob+switch layout is symmetrical - I've done plenty with offset switchs/knobs, you just need to leave extra slack in the wire, and you can keep checking the fit by dropping the board and attached pots off the face of the pedal and stuffing it inside. A thin card template of the inside of the pedal with holes punched to accpet the pots makes it easier to hold the wiring together in a "harness" if you've got a lot of knobs 

I've gradually worked my boxing-time from a whole evening to maybe a little over an hour. Mounting the board onto the enclosure is probably the change I've made that has had most impact on successful builds, it's very easy to ground something that should be if the board is not held clear.

[audiolife]

I'm using the correct kind of DC jack. My 1/4" jacks are metal, is that a problem for a metal enclosure?

Perhaps I just need to alter my approach, step away from it for a little and come back fresh.

It's a love/hate thing for me 

[deadastronaut]

what is it you've built?..schematic/layout etc...


yep sometimes you just have to take a break.......

[Kesh]

Ideal first boxing up has 1 pot, just external power, and no LED.

I make my pots part of the board, using double sided foam tape. Someone here posted a great account of how it's done, though the way I do it has the board upside down.

[Processaurus]

How are you mounting your board in the enclosure? A picture wouldn't hurt. 

Any time a circuit works outside the box (all wired up with switches and jacks, very worthwhile to test it at this point), and doesn't when assembled means something is shorting out on the metal box, creating an unwanted path to ground somewhere in the circuit.  All of my early builds had the same problems, the solution is either a solid way to mount the board, or tons of electrical tape on the enclosure interior and offboard pots, switches, and jacks, to prevent things from making shorts.

The other possibility is that a wire broke, from getting handled.  This happens easily if the wire strippers nick the wire where you're stripping the insulation.  Wires will almost always break at the soldered ends because of this, not in the middle.

Also, mind how your power is hooked up.  If you are using a battery and the stereo input jack trick, double check that wiring.  Also double check that the jacks are wired correctly, if one had the signal and ground switched that could maybe kinda work outside the box but not in.

[Devius]

How do you put the finished board in the enclosure? If the solder side of your board is touching metal it could negate the effect.

[audiolife]

It could have been a short, I stripped it and am starting fresh. I covered the bottom of the box in elec. tape so it's not there either.

How much hum is normal for a circuit on the breadboard? Granted, being out of an enclosure makes it more likely to catch interference, right?

Or should a circuit on the breadboard sound like a pedal...quiet save for the desired effect?

[JRB]

Granted, being out of an enclosure makes it more likely to catch interference, right?

There is your answer 

[deadastronaut]

looks like we'll have to guess what it is then..

fuzz face?

[J0K3RX]

bah... 

[deadastronaut]

 

[Jdansti]

>It's kind of getting ridiculous, I don't want to stop trying but I'm spending hours for nothing here. Perhaps I just need to alter my approach...

It is ridiculous and yes you need to alter your approach. Here's how:

When you ask for help, you have to provide the right information to get that help. People are trying to help you, but you're not responding to their questions. They can't see, feel, hear, smell what your pedal is doing, so before you write anything else, you need to provide some information and answer the following questions:

1.  Post a schematic of the pedal. If you don't know how, at least provide a link.
2.  Is your DC jack metal or plastic?
3.  How are you mounting your board in the enclosure? Provide a photo if you can.
4.  Provide a description of the difference between unboxed and boxed behavior.
5.  Carefully read the future replies and answer the specific questions that your helpers pose.

As you can see, people are happy to help, but it's frustrating when the communication is only in one direction.

[deadastronaut]

+`1........

[alparent]

I did get those cursed enclosures when I started that would just kill my effects after I put them in. out of the box they worked, but once in they would die.

To solve my problem I've assembled the effect outside the box with longer wires for the outside components like jacks, DC, pots......
Then I started putting stuff in my enclosure one at a time (and testing the effect after each item I added) to track what was killing it.
I ended up adding everything and it worked?! I was happy now I could just redo this with shorter wires 'cause I know it would now work.
But once I put the back plate on.....dead again!? I to put some electric tape prevent shorts. But my problem ended up being a sharp solder point that would poked through the tape and was shorting when I put the back plate on.

Might not be your problem......but adding things one at a time might help help troubleshooting?

Do not despair!

[audiolife]

@jdansti I wasn't asking for specific help, per se, moreso advice from people more experienced than I.

@deadastronaut - I'm working on the Beavis Muff Fuzz haha.

I'm guessing by what you've typed that my issues are common?  

[Jdansti]

Sorry. We don't see too many posts asking for advice but not specific help.  

BTW-I'm very interested to hear Rob's advice.

[audiolife]

Me too 

I guess one of the things that throws me is when it's on the breadboard, how much hum is normal? I usually don't cut the leads for the components until they're going into the circuit board, so on the breadboard the leads are longer, hence picking up more interference?

My jacks are metal too.

This is a tricky business, but I'm gonna try again on this muff fuzz later today.

Cheers for the input everyone!