Rat Clone (synthrotek) inquiry.

[Dumpster Diver]

IM a Huge melvins Fan and I know Buzz from the melvins used a Proco Rat distortion at one point.

I plan to Get a LOT of building under my belt, so you can consider me an empty Vessel to fill with Knowledge.

I came across Synthroteks neat website recently, and See they have a relatively cheap Barebones kit for a Rat Clone among other Neat stuff like the ATARI synth punk stomp, Wondering what their Kit will supply me with in terms of quality components...as opposed to what I SHOULD be putting on the PCB in terms of higher end parts.

if anyone here has built one of these kits, and what they think of the kit version components offered here, as opposed to just Starting from Their PCB and selecting more optimum components (I see a lot of guys here swapping out certain key ICs and Resistors for Different results). how does the kit compare to a vintage Rat pedal. If I decide to build one for fun..do you think I would be dissapointed with this kit as opposed to Splurging and just buying a real one for The big bucks as they say...like, I mean, Im just an enthusiast trying not to get burned on a cheap kit..I would rather build something of higher quality if only I had something to compare my build to.


I dont NEED this pedal, but If I can build something for under 40 bucks for fun, what the hey!
and If I do want one, WHY do I want it...IE; Whats really cool about this pedal that makes it special 


some of those Rats have gone for unde 400 bucks, so for 10 percent of that Estimated Value, I can build this one in a few hours..

but what should I know about Rat pedals before I do. And ESPECIALLY tell me how the KIT version Holds up to The REAL deal name-brand Rats.

I would imagine It would sound Ideal for solid state guitar amps and Ive read its Also Superb for overdriving tube amps, someone said its an overdrive much like the Ibanez Tube screamer, soo I dont know if its a distortion or an overdrive, I would prefer a Tube overdrive if I could find a nice build.

I need some practice before Building a few synths so I will warm up by doing several small builds.
Im thinking of Building a lot of Pedals;
Ampeg scrambler, TS-909,Fuzzface, and maybe a couple Fuzztone type vintage type things ( I need something compatable to a Traynor YBA-1 Syle amp)

Maybe you can recommend me a good Overdrive to build, its gonna be a long winter so I like a challenge!

-Jules

[ashcat_lt]

I may get flamed for this, but here goes...

IMO, even a half-assed clone of a Rat will sound pretty damn good.  It's a very simple circuit and most of the goodness comes in the particular tone shaping in and around the gain stage.  Especially if you're asking "what's special about the rat?" you're not likely to notice the subtleties of different opamps.  But...

...This one comes with "the" opamp - the LM308 with all the lowish slew rate that it involves.  These arent exactly extinct, but can be hard to find.  And it's got some of the most popular mods built right in.  Diode switching, some sort of bass enhancement, true bypass switching...

I guess I didn't check to see if they were using things like 1% metal resistors or whatever, but you can bet that ProCo used the cheapest acceptable components in the originals.

To try to source that box, the switch and jacks alone you'd be getting close enough to the price of the kit.  Then if you value your time hunting for each R and C on a site like mouser, not to mention laying out and drilling the box...

That said, when I decided I couldn't live without a Rat any longer, and knowing that I wanted to get into playing with different circuits, I went out to mouser.com and bought the internals to make like 5 of them.  No LM308s, though, and no boxes.

[Dumpster Diver]

I guess I didn't check to see if they were using things like 1% metal resistors or whatever, but you can bet that ProCo used the cheapest acceptable components in the originals.

To try to source that box, the switch and jacks alone you'd be getting close enough to the price of the kit.  Then if you value your time hunting for each R and C on a site like mouser, not to mention laying out and drilling the box...

yes, That is what I was suspecting. So I could build it now nicely, cheaply.. and Always mod later. 

I have never Dealt with Ordering parts yet if that gives you an idea how noob I am.

so can you beat the Synthrotek Rat clone for quick, easy and cheap 

Yeah I guess I can always sell it and make my Cash back or something if I hate it with my setup..but most pedal Abusers LOVE their Rat mods.

[Dumpster Diver]

also doing your own Box is part of the Artistic originality and Beauty. Hah!!!


*Cough*woodsidepanels*cough 

Its gotta reflect a nice look on stage, and Rugged as hell too, even if the inside of it is cheap, I can still present it in a classic well-made stomp case.

Its gotta have some heft to it, I dont want it kicking around on the floor and expect it to last 10 years even.
I gotta try to get at LEAST two Decades of hard tours out of it...or am I expecting too much of my Gear. 

[electrosonic]

Kind of off-topic, but I have a gripe about the synthrotek site - I couldn't find any schematics for the pc boards they sell.

If you build one of their boards and it doesn't work, it would be harder to troubleshoot. I am not sure what kind of support they offer for builders  Also, as a DIY site, you don't really learn much using a paint by numbers approach.


Andrew.

[Dumpster Diver]

they dont list schematics but most of those circuits are pretty goof-proof. They do Show you with photos how it is assembled, pretty much as simple as a snap together model.

How about building an ampeg scramber...can you recommend me the cheapest kit for a Scrambler clone ( I think Im more into that pedals sound either way)

[GGBB]

Pretty much everything you need to know about the various original RAT circuits can be found here:

http://www.aronnelson.com/gallery/main.php/v/diyuser/GGBB/Multi-RAT.png.html

Ashcat is right - clones sound great.  And even if you really want the original tone, the now discontinued Vintage RAT 1991 reissue is about as close as it gets to the original and is one of the cheapest RATs you can find on the used market (~$70).  Look for ones from before about 1996 which say "RAT RE-ISSUE 1991" on the component side of the PCB in the bottom left corner - these use the same PCB layout as the originals (also same as the '85 Whiteface Reissue which goes for twice the price or more).

[Eric.nail]

I guess I didn't check to see if they were using things like 1% metal resistors or whatever, but you can bet that ProCo used the cheapest acceptable components in the originals.

To try to source that box, the switch and jacks alone you'd be getting close enough to the price of the kit.  Then if you value your time hunting for each R and C on a site like mouser, not to mention laying out and drilling the box...

Just bought the parts via Pedal Parts Plus. Fantastic sourcing for nice enclosures. They'll drill em too. I'm pretty sure you'll notice a slight difference in high end with Metal film resistors but i actually want that anyway. OH they've also got a stock of the LM308 Chips. I think they were 4 bucks a pop. Little more expensive than if you were to get em off ebay but still...They're shipping is like 10 times faster than shipping from china. I'm building it on my down time while at a church couples conference over the weekend(Single guy at a couples conference...sigh....). I'll be sure to post the results.

Good luck with it!

[Dumpster Diver]

Just want to say, thanks! BTW.

this is all Great Imformation! I Appreciate all your Feedback.
most helpfull.

I dont mind any high end loss, as much as just signal drop from a bad circuit.

Albeit, theres nothing better than the sound of a good Tube amp.

The Traynor YBA-1 has more Treble than I can stand using any guitar.
guys have said when they modded their YBA- Amps to the plexi mod it gave much more high end response. (who wants to mod their vintage Traynor NOW after so many years its been fine as is, and WHY would you... beyond me, get a Bogen Tube amp to mod or something Busted down, not some nice vintage bass amp...theres something thats been in some old guys Garage for 40 years you can fix up a bit.
I usually cut the Treble on the Amp and Guitar right off, focus on the mid-range. I will boost Treble later During the mixing. high end boost of the guitar isnt going to saturate my Tape track like the lows. I like a Dry Raspy Kind of punchy overdrive with the right guitar, usually Humbuckers dont need treble through this rig if its loud enough and the room sound is passable or on the Dry side, sorry for going off topic here)  

As for that plexi mod, it Got even MORE high end Response. what I DO know is that I can hear when a pedal sucks all your Juice out and its better off to just go with The amp sound to begin and that it is RARE that I will use FX with the Traynor amp, The damn thing sounds so good on its own to begin.

Thanks again this has been very helpful information!  

I think I scoped a DIY Kit of the AMPEG scrambler of Buidlyourownclone.com Prices still fair but I see I can build it for much less. its not the only kit out there of the Scrambler, except with less of the Boutique claims made by Buildyourownclone. This pedal has more Of the sound I think Im looking for. Im a big Fan of Early doom;

Pentagram, Cirith ungol, Witchfinder general, Witchfynde, Cathedral, Blue Cheer, Hawkwind, Dragonfly,Captain Beyond, Lucifers Friend, all the way to Retro 80s Heavy metal... and Space rock sounding prog stuff etc etc, pretty much Anything Stoned out with loads of Weird Fuzz...the srambler (Scrabled Octave) has more of that fuzz sound (sorta) its not really a fuzz from what I have Read from the Clone page. Its a toss up between what Kit to bite on...any suggestions welcome!
sounds like Its got that Cheap oldschool soupy fuzz sound I like, The Rat sounds good still compared, Its more a Straighforward Sound I can always come back to when I gotta use some Cruddy little Solid state amp the next time Im doing a gig and the PA System Eats it and its time to Just Kick some Ass and rock out and show em how to have a good time.  

-Jules

[Dumpster Diver]

Forgot to mention Sir lord Baltimore. 

I forget what oldschool psych bands modified their Guitar amps to have more overdrive. My friend was asking me the other day.
Theres plenty Im sure.