3 pedals in and none of them work. Please help!

[facon]

Hello,

I managed to build 7 byoc pedals with no problems at all. So I thought, why not give a shot at vero board and sourcing all of my own parts? Well, I sourced my parts for 10 pedals. I've built three pedals so far and none of them work. Maybe I'm not cut out for this. The pedals are Rockbox Boiling Point, Big Muff Green Russian and Big Muff Civil War. All layouts from http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com (will post direct links). I'm at my wits end and could really use some help! Any input from you guys at all would be greatly appreciated!

I've spent over 4 hours on each pedal going over and over the connections. I've searched around for as much advice and tips as possible. I don't see any cold solder joints. I followed all of the layouts strictly with exact values. I don't see any bridged strips in the vero board. I triple checked the pinouts on all transistors used.

Info for all 3:

For all pedals I used the GGG true bypass wiring guide (tried others with the same results so I just came back to this): http://www.generalguitargadgets.com/pdf/ggg_sw_3pdt_tb_dcj.pdf

For input jacks I used switchcraft 12B and for output jacks I used switchcraft 11.

The power connectors are Kobicon 2.1MM jacks: http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Kobiconn/163-4302-E/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMu2f9RNbWupYtIo6vLbBrLyp5YHgEJ%2fC6w%3d

3PDT Taiwan blue switches.

All resistors are 1/4 watt. Film capacitors are 50V panasonic. Electrolytic caps are 10uf 25V, 47uf 25V and 100Uf 16V (voltage too low?).

LEDs are http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Dialight/559-2101-007F/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtEjy7lsqBi5VHdHj4MmWsqn70VBOtE8Oc%3d with 2.2k resistors (tried wiring resistors before and after LED).

Power source is Voodoo Lab Pedal Power Plus 2 and batteries.

Rockbox Boiling Point

1) The pedal does not do anything when engaged. No LEDs light up. No sound comes from it what so ever. When bypassed, sound comes through like normal.
2) Circuit is vero board Rockbox Boiling Point circuit by IvIark
3) Layout URL: http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/09/rockbox-boiling-point.html
4) No modifications.
5) No parts substitutes that I know of.
6) Negative ground circuit. No conversion.
7) Multimeter set to DC:
   a) Probe connected to battery leads with no battery. Started at .640V DC, but continuously moves down over time. When reconnected, starts back at the last voltage checked.
   b) Battery in. Probe to ground and red battery lead. 9.13V DC
   C) Battery in. Probe to ground and black battery lead. 0V DC
Voltage list
Q1 (MPSA18)
C = 9.13V
B = 323.8 mV
E = .1mV

Q2 (MPSA18)
C= 15.1 mV
B= 7.1 mV
E= .1 mV

IC1 (RC4558P)
P1 = 9.8 mV
P2 = 9.8 mV
P3 = 9.8 mV
P4 = 0 mV
P5 = 9.6 mV
P6 = 9.6 mV
P7 = 10.2 mV
P8 = 14.3 mV



Big Muff Green Russian

1) When engaged there is a small amount of noise. No guitar signal passes through. Turning the volume pot makes a scratchy noise. No LEDs light up. Clicking the switch makes a loud pop. When bypassed, sound comes through like normal.
2) Circuit is vero board Big Muff Green Russian circuit by IvIark
3) Layout URL: http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/06/ehx-green-russian-big-muff.html
4) No modifications.
5) No parts substitutes that I know of.
6) Negative ground circuit. No conversion.
7) Multimeter set to DC:
   a) Probe connected to battery leads with no battery. 0 mV DC
   b) Battery in. Probe to ground and red battery lead. 9.10V DC
   C) Battery in. Probe to ground and black battery lead. 0V DC
Voltage list
Q1 (2N5088)
C = 8.88 V
B = 8.66 V (slowly moves down countinously if held)
E = 8.64 V(slowly moves down countinously if held)

Q2 (2N5088)
C= 8.89 V
B= 8.67 V (slowly moves down countinously if held)
E=  8.67 V (slowly moves down countinously if held)

Q3 (2N5088)
C = 3.05 V
B = .635 V
E = 35.1 mV

Q4 (2N5088)
C= 8.88 V
B= 50.9 mV
E= 50.6 mV

D1
A = 8.38 V
K = 8.65 V

D2
A = 8.66
K = 8.35

D3
A = .635 V
K = .918 V

D4
A = .918 V
K = .635 V

DX
A = 9.90 V
K = 8.92 V



Big Muff Civil War

1) No guitar signal passes through. Turning the volume and tone pots makes a scratchy noise. LED does not power on. When bypassed, sound comes through like normal.
2) Circuit is vero board Big Muff Civil War circuit by IvIark
3) Layout URL: http://tagboardeffects.blogspot.com/2012/08/ehx-civil-war-big-muff.html
4) No modifications.
5) No parts substitutes that I know of.
6) Negative ground circuit. No conversion.
7) Multimeter set to DC:
   a) Probe connected to battery leads with no battery. 0 V DC
   b) Battery in. Probe to ground and red battery lead. 9.1 V DC
   C) Battery in. Probe to ground and black battery lead. 0 V DC
Voltage list
Q1 (2N5089)
C = 9.08 VDC
B = 8.71 VDC (slowly moves down countinously if held)
E = 8.71 VDC (slowly moves down countinously if held)

Q2 (2N5089)
C= 9.06 VDC
B= 8.42 VDC (slowly moves down countinously if held)
E= 8.23 VDC ((slowly moves UP countinously if held)

Q3 (2N5089)
C = 8.20 VDC
B = 55.6mV
E = 53 mV

Q4 (2N5089)
C= 9.08 VDC
B= 36.6 mV
E= 0 V

D1
A = 19.3 mV
K = 39.6 Mv

D2
A = 47.5 mV
K = 16 mV

D3
A = -9.3 Mv
K = -126.4 mV

D4
A = -126.9 Mv
K = -9 mV

[jmasciswannabe]

The fact that none of the LEDs light up leads me to believe you have a problem with your switch wiring. It's an easy thing to check. Make sure that the leg with the flat side is going to ground and the other side going to a resistor (often 4.7k) and then to +

[J0K3RX]

Try wiring without the foot switch and see if it works... input tip to IN on the board / output tip to OUT on the board / both IN and OUT sleeves to ground on the board / 9v to the 9v on the board and power ground to ground on the board.... then plug yer guitar in and see what happens. Make sure your polarity is correct...

[midwayfair]

Pictures of both sides of the boards will help. Maybe there's a missed or incomplete cut or something else another pair of eyes can spot.

But just to be certain, that's the best place to check right now. Set your probe to continuity, grab the layout, and, one at a time, double check the continuity on both sides of every cut. Make sure you check them all. If you get continuity across a cut, that's your problem.

Don't give up! You've done an excellent job troubleshooting so far, the trick now is just finding a common thread.

There's definitely something SUPER incredibly weird in your boiling point. Pin 8 should be connected to the 9v source. The fact that it doesn't have 9v on it means that's the first place to look: Why don't you have continuity there? Did you add that jumper?

[facon]

Thank you guys. Looking into to all of these now.

[facon]

There's definitely something SUPER incredibly weird in your boiling point. Pin 8 should be connected to the 9v source. The fact that it doesn't have 9v on it means that's the first place to look: Why don't you have continuity there? Did you add that jumper?

Well, I ran an impedance test on the jumper and it tested fine. I decided to replace the jumper anyway and pin 8 read 9v. Plugged in the pedal and it works! However, it works weird. When I turn the volume pot on my guitar, I'm getting the scratchy pot sound and when I turn my guitar's volume is all the way down, the LED turns off.

I'm starting to think that my wire might be a problem. I had 24awg solid core wire laying around and used that. I'm noticing if I wiggle certain wires, the signal cuts in and out. Even if I barely touch the wire and keep the connections solid. Perhaps there are breaks in the wire?

[midwayfair]

I'm starting to think that my wire might be a problem. I had 24awg solid core wire laying around and used that. I'm noticing if I wiggle certain wires, the signal cuts in and out. Even if I barely touch the wire and keep the connections solid. Perhaps there are breaks in the wire?

Could be, but with solid core wire it's easy to end up with broken solder connections, too.

Glad one's working at least partway.

The input on the Boiling Point vero is right next to the LED. You have a solder bridge somewhere. When you turn your guitar down, it's grounding the LED anode. It's also grounding the power supply, and worse, it's grounding the DC power supply into your guitar's ground, which means there's a change of you frying your pickups. Find this problem before you continue testing the pedal. Your multimeter is your best friend right now.

You really should set yourself up a test rig, too, so you don't box up a board before it's verified to be working. You'll save yourself days of frustration this way. It doesn't have to be fancy -- I just use my breadboard and some wires attached to jacks. You can use alligator clips, too.

[LucifersTrip]

yes, solid core not cool...it pulls up the traces with little effort

muffs:  voltages are so far off there's probably multiple problems.  here's one set of good voltages from GGG... C's are usually ~ 4-5v range

Q1 Collector 3.9
Base 0.6
Emitter 0.03
Q2 Collector 3.8
Base 0.6
Emitter 0.03
Q3 Collector 3.8
Base 0.6
Emitter 0.03
Q4 Collector 4.0
Base 2.5
Emitter 1.8

I would start simple and work 1 stage at a time. It is easy since the BM is 4 stages right in a row



look at the 1st stage (up to the .1 on Q1C)....try to get the voltages correct on that first. note that the sustain pot connects stage 1 & 2 so simply don't hook that up and you can work on Q1 alone

[PRR]

> E = 8.64 V(slowly moves down countinously if held)
> E = 8.71 VDC (slowly moves down countinously if held)

Power ground is not connected. Emitters should be very close to Zero, not up near +9V. (In this circuit, and many others, though not all.)

As LT's picture shows, point-oh-something on the early transistors, couple volts on the last one.

Your builds with "all" voltages up near 9V clearly are missing the power ground to the circuit. (The voltage drops while measured because the meter gives a very-lame path for power to go to ground.)

#24 wire is electrically fine. In Telephone or Network grade, it isn't prone to internal breaks. As they say, you do have to take care with getting GOOD solder joints (old wire is dirty wire and won't solder). And 4 hours of poking around can fatigue-break fine wire.

[facon]

Thanks again for all of the tips. I'll report back later when on when I'm able to finish some of it.

[J0K3RX]

I agree with Paul...    About solid wire. I have used telcom wire in a pinch and it works well but solid copper wire over time can become brittle. Just like copper pipes in your plumbing, when it's new and shiny it is very flexible but over time it becomes darker colored and gets stiff, hard to bend and breaks easily. With stranded wire usually if they break they will not all break at once and they retain flexibility... Wire your pedal up straight with no switches that way you can eliminate incorrect wiring and or a bad switch...     

[garcho]

20 bucks for one of these:



If you breadboard something until it sounds like it's worth building, you have a guide for your hard-wired version. The voltages, pot wiring, switch wiring, power filtering, etc. can all mostly be worked out on the breadboard and give you a good place to reference for troubleshooting, as long as you take notes! It's also a good guide for making your layout, especially if you use, strip, vero, proto, etc. Don't stress! 1000 pedal builds later, remembering this will make you chuckle.

[slacker]

When I turn the volume pot on my guitar, I'm getting the scratchy pot sound and when I turn my guitar's volume is all the way down, the LED turns off.

If you look at the vero layout the trace to the LED + is right next to the input trace. You've probably got a tiny blob of solder connecting the two, this will put some DC voltage on to your volume pot, causing the scratchy sounds and make your volume pot control the brightness of the LED.

[facon]

The input on the Boiling Point vero is right next to the LED. You have a solder bridge somewhere. When you turn your guitar down, it's grounding the LED anode. It's also grounding the power supply, and worse, it's grounding the DC power supply into your guitar's ground, which means there's a change of you frying your pickups. Find this problem before you continue testing the pedal. Your multimeter is your best friend right now.

If you look at the vero layout the trace to the LED + is right next to the input trace. You've probably got a tiny blob of solder connecting the two, this will put some DC voltage on to your volume pot, causing the scratchy sounds and make your volume pot control the brightness of the LED.

You guys were right. There was a tiny sliver from the LED (stranded cable) that made it's way over to the input. Went back over it and it worked! Well, sorta. It kept cutting in and out when the pedal moved slightly. I realized that I'm just not good (patient, talented, ninja like) enough yet for solid core. I rewired it using the little bit of stranded I have left and now there's no more cutting in or out! Of course, It's not 100% yet.

EDIT: High pitched whine figured out. I reheated the solder from the input connection on the board. Looks like the input and drive 1 was bridged. So that's all set. Now I'm realizing that the pedal is super high gain how it is. I took readings on the transistors and I think I have a similar problem with my grounding as the issue with the big muffs. I have the ground from the board and the sleeve of the input jack both wired to the center pin on my 3PDT switch.

Q1
C = 8.93
B =4.43
E =4.05

Q2
C=8.94
B=4.06
E=3.70

I think for the next pedal I'm going to double the space between traces and just leave out a row between each. That's like training wheels for a pedal building noob right? haha.

20 bucks for one of these:

If you breadboard something until it sounds like it's worth building, you have a guide for your hard-wired version. The voltages, pot wiring, switch wiring, power filtering, etc. can all mostly be worked out on the breadboard and give you a good place to reference for troubleshooting, as long as you take notes! It's also a good guide for making your layout, especially if you use, strip, vero, proto, etc. Don't stress! 1000 pedal builds later, remembering this will make you chuckle.

You know, I actually have a breadboard similar to that. I think I got a little too confident after my byoc builds. I can see now that it was arrogance. I'll need to get some more experience with the breadboard and see if I can't come up with something cool and unique.

yes, solid core not cool...it pulls up the traces with little effort

muffs:  voltages are so far off there's probably multiple problems.  here's one set of good voltages from GGG... C's are usually ~ 4-5v range

Q1 Collector 3.9
Base 0.6
Emitter 0.03
Q2 Collector 3.8
Base 0.6
Emitter 0.03
Q3 Collector 3.8
Base 0.6
Emitter 0.03
Q4 Collector 4.0
Base 2.5
Emitter 1.8

I would start simple and work 1 stage at a time. It is easy since the BM is 4 stages right in a row


look at the 1st stage (up to the .1 on Q1C)....try to get the voltages correct on that first. note that the sustain pot connects stage 1 & 2 so simply don't hook that up and you can work on Q1 alone

> E = 8.64 V(slowly moves down countinously if held)
> E = 8.71 VDC (slowly moves down countinously if held)

Power ground is not connected. Emitters should be very close to Zero, not up near +9V. (In this circuit, and many others, though not all.)

As LT's picture shows, point-oh-something on the early transistors, couple volts on the last one.

Your builds with "all" voltages up near 9V clearly are missing the power ground to the circuit. (The voltage drops while measured because the meter gives a very-lame path for power to go to ground.)

#24 wire is electrically fine. In Telephone or Network grade, it isn't prone to internal breaks. As they say, you do have to take care with getting GOOD solder joints (old wire is dirty wire and won't solder). And 4 hours of poking around can fatigue-break fine wire.

Both of the Big Muffs have two grounds to the boards. Is there a specific order that I should be using when connecting to them? I have the ground from the top left connecting to the sleeve of the input jack and the ground on the bottom left connecting to the center pin of my 3PDT switch.

[Mark Hammer]

If you are building something for the umpteenth time, and know exactly how long everything needs to be, where to bend it, and where it goes, solid-core wire is fine and makes for a clean and professional-looking layout.  If you're building anything for the first time, and don't know how long a wire has to be because you haven't drilled the holes where the pot/jack/switch/LED goes just yet, stranded wire is much better-suited to turning corners, bending, etc..  By virtue of having more surface area, stranded also tins much easier/better.

[facon]

Try wiring without the foot switch and see if it works... input tip to IN on the board / output tip to OUT on the board / both IN and OUT sleeves to ground on the board / 9v to the 9v on the board and power ground to ground on the board.... then plug yer guitar in and see what happens. Make sure your polarity is correct...

I tried this with the Civil War Big Muff. I have the ground wired from the power to the output sleeve to the input sleeve then to the top left ground connection. Led ground and bottom left board ground were connected to the output sleeve. Doing this was able to get audio and be able see what wires were causing problems. Most of them were haha. Switching over to stranded.

It's sounding good! All the transistors are reading fine now (after going through and reflowing a few solder joints). I'll be really happy when this is done with.

[ashcat_lt]

Those two ground wires need to connect to each other, to the metal case, and eventually to the negative lead of the power supply.  The sleeve of the input jack usually takes care of connecting to the case and (through the barrel of the plug to the ring of the jack) the bottom of the power. If there is a "ground" wire going to the switch it is meant as a way for the LED to find ground, there's no way for the board to find ground through that connection.  You could probably leave it wired the way you've got it and then run a jumper between those two ground rows.

[facon]

Those two ground wires need to connect to each other, to the metal case, and eventually to the negative lead of the power supply.  The sleeve of the input jack usually takes care of connecting to the case and (through the barrel of the plug to the ring of the jack) the bottom of the power. If there is a "ground" wire going to the switch it is meant as a way for the LED to find ground, there's no way for the board to find ground through that connection.  You could probably leave it wired the way you've got it and then run a jumper between those two ground rows.

And that got them 100%. Thank you! I somehow failed to see that the two grounds were isolated from eachother. I had one of them going to the switch, which would also explain the LED not coming on.

You guys are awesome! I learned a lot in the process and I now feel more confident in understanding the circuits.

[Jdansti]

I don't know what your soldering skill level is, but I recommend this video to everyone regardless of their skill level. It's concise and very informative.

[ashcat_lt]

That layout freaks me out.  There should be a jumper.  One of those wires should be labeled something other than ground, or omitted entirely.